Have I started weaning my breastfed baby too soon?

[MsPea]

Hi there,

Yesterday, on the advice of my HV, I gave my 19 week old dd baby rice and again today. This was because she has dropped from the 9th centile where she was born and stayed until recently onto the 2nd centile. Also she looks interested in our food but has not noticeably begun feeding or waking more often.

Since the first baby rice she has had watery diahorrea so that virtually every nappy change involves changing her clothes. Also she had a bad night (though of course she dose have them; it could have been concincidence).

Shall I stop? Have we started too early? Sad to see her with the squits.

[anonymousdr]

OH, I do hope jools doesn't feel jumped on.

There is a lot of opinion masquerading as fact where weaning is concerned, and health professionals aren't immune to that.

I think it's very important to debate these things.

[Aloha]

This is a bit off topic - sorry - but joolsandoliver - is this your first child? Going back to work is really emotional for most of us, but I suspect you might be projecting some of your feelings on your baby. Food is a very emotive issue for many mothers, but I honestly don't think it is a huge deal for babies. They just don't IME regard it as an emotional hurdle or something to 'cope' with, it's just a different form of food. And if you wean later then not only do babies take to it more naturally and more easily, but they also don't need ages to get 'established' - they just eat! There is absolutely no need IMO for you to think this is something so very important and traumatic for your baby that you need to wean him so early - and 14 weeks is pretty early. I understand your concerns about reflux, but I have to say, IME you are more likely to get tummy upsets etc when you start weaning, esp if you do it young. I'd wait and enjoy your baby now instead of worrying about the future. Are you going back full time or part time? Have you looked at childminders yet? Lots of babies are very happy at their childminders or with a nanny and really don't feel abandoned.

[DaisyMOO]

I'm sorry, but the 'advice changes all the time' argument doesn't cut it for me. Surely you should base your decision on the evidence there is now, not what it might or might not be at some unspecified time in the future!

[anonymousdr]

What a good point, Aloha.

For the record, I started solids with mine at 6 months, and although they thought it was quite interesting having food in their mouths, it really wasn't a big deal for them.

Could you not have him drinking milk all day whilst in childcare, and maybe let him play with food a bit in the evening? You'll soon get a feel for whether he's really keen or not.

Don't know if that's compatible with your working hours though.

[Twinklemegan]

Re weight gain and illness. My 5 month old DS had a cold followed by a bad cough over Christmas and New Year - lasted about 3 weeks in total. He only put on 5.5oz last month and dropped from 50th to 25th centile. HV wasn't worried about this.

Just to make a personal point, much as I respect the advice not to wean until 6 months, I do feel that it's not always helpful to mix this with the issue of exclusive b/f, however beneficial that may be. It seems then to be more about the goodness of the breastmilk rather than any actual harm from solids. This confuses the weaning issue I feel, especially when one is mixed or formula feeding.

[Twinklemegan]

Although, of course, this thread is about weaning a BREASTFED baby!

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

That's not quite correct, TM.

[Twinklemegan]

Which bit, QV? I didn't mean there mightn't be any harm from solids, only that it changes the emphasis of the argument somewhat.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

But, its all relative and connected. I think it is valid to discuss all elements and allow people to draw what they like from it.

[Twinklemegan]

VVVQV?????? I can't go to bed now til I know what I said wrong!!!

[Twinklemegan]

X post lol. Yeah you're right it's all connected - I'm not saying it doesn't come into it. It's just that this might dilute the argument somewhat if someone isn't actually b/f. And obviously, as I said, it's completely relevant on this particular thread.

[kiskidee]

i take it joolsandoliver, that you are fairly new at reading and posting on MN.

it is a very emotive issue and you seem to have jumped in all guns blazing with little research into the topic.

with your disdain for all 'expert' advice, surely you are in the wrong profession and maybe the creative arts would be more your arena. it would send a shiver down my spine if i thought my gp felt this way about expert advice.

[yellowrose]

My GP and HV don't speak or write very differently to jools unfortuntaly, which is why I felt she had to be told to stop commenting on things she obvioulsy does not have sufficient knowledge of.

Although I appreciate she may be new here as well as being a first time mum, I don't think it is appropriate to talk about her personal experiences or anxieties as A MUM in the same breath as saying I AM A DOCTOR.

As kiskedee points out, I would be very concerned if this is what she is doing in her surgery.

It is important to let people know that inappropriate and inaccurate advice on the internet (or in a surgery) may lead to a mother weaning her baby off the breast or onto solids sooner than advised by most bf experts.

[hatwoman]

"jumped in all guns blazing"?? she didn't at all. and as for recognising the shortcomings of "expert" advice I'd far rather have an expert that recognised this than one who thought what they/experts on a particular area said was gospel.

[yellowrose]

hatwoman - with due respect, why don't let jools speak for herself ?

[hatwoman]

oh for gods sake. she specifically said she wasn't an expert and that being a doctor didn;t make her one (we don;t even know what kind of doctor she is). anyone who doesn;t double check advice on mn with other sources is, tbh, daft. and as for "I felt she had to be told" if someone's post is so inappropriate as to need being "told" not to post in such a manner then report to mn hq. They're the only ones entitled to do any "telling".

[hatwoman]

because she doesn;t seem to be around, and because it winds me up when people get jumped on. because it's the kind of thing that puts people off mn and because when people jump on you it's nice to know not everyone feels the same. with due respect

[yellowrose]

Eh no, I think posters should pick up on poor, ill-founded advice or comments too.

[yellowrose]

hatwoman - you have been defending jools right from the minute go. I thought she might like to defend herself and her views in person.

[yellowrose]

I don't know if you have been reading the other threads where one new poster claimed to be a qualified Breasfeeding Councillor and it turns out she wasn't.

I am not saying jools was doing the same thing, but re. the other woman, it was the posters who picked up on it first, not MN watch tower.

[mears]

Having read through this thread again I would like to comment on the fact that joolsandoliver did infact say she wasn't an expert despite being a doctor and she is unsure who 'experts' are.
I think that there are enough resources out there to support the 'expert' opinion and these can be found on \link{http://www.babyfriendly.org.uk/the Babyfriendly website}

I get fed up seeing that the 6 month recommendation is for third world babiers only - it applies equally to the UK. It also applies to bottle fed babies as Twinklemegan pointed out.

There are a few issues mixed up here too. Having had 4 children, there isn't really a big deal about starting solids IMO - returning to work is not any easier by having a baby on solid food. The key essential is planning ahead if you are breastfeeding. If you want to continue to exclusively breastfeed then you need to stock pile EBM in the freezer and express when you are at work. You can get extremely slick at it believe me

AS with everything, there are guidelines out there to help inform. Parents are entitled to make their individual decisions on when to waen their babies either taking that advice on board ro rejecting it.

Jools wishes to reject it - that is fine.

I personally never achieved 6 months exclusive breastfeeding till my 4th baby because I lacked total confidence till then. Earliest I weaned was 20 weeks. At that time the recommendation was 16 weeks so I felt pretty good.

If I had a new baby all over again it would be 6 months. That would be my personal choice.

[mears]

Babyfriendly

[MsPea]

Hello again!

Have been intrigued to read all of this. I still feel happy with my decision at the moment. We're going to see how we go.

I had no idea until I began bf (dd is my first) what an emotionally intense experience it was going to be ... sounds mad perhaps, but there has been nothing previously in my life remotely similar that might have shaped my expectations.

I'm v glad to have had the opportunity (well most of the time! Less so at 3am ). dd was a not-particularly-well-timed surprise and sometimes it has been hard to make the life changes her arrival has required. But bf her has been one of the biggest unexpected joys.

I also had little idea of the decisions and debates that surround bf within a Westernised society, and how emotive these can be. Really it is a fascinating subject.

[joolsandoliver]

I would like to apologise to MsPea for the hijacking of her post. I did not mean to cause such controversy or upset to you all and I am sorry if you have interpreted my post in that way, I obviously have not expressed myself very eloquently.

MsPea said that on the advice of her HV she had done something she now feels unsure of, my point was meant to mean much more "who are the experts" than I AM A DOCTOR. My only point as a doctor in this post is going to be that as a mother you are the expert of your own child. MsPea and everyone else should of course listen to their HV, but this does not mean you should take as gospel what you are told as you will surely know if it will suit your child or not. All my other points are made as a mother and an individual with an opinion - NOT as a doctor.

I said in my post do what suits you and your baby, and I stand by that. We all parent in different ways and we parent different babies differently as well. Some babies will need weaning earlier than the guidelines recommend and my concern is that mothers are made to feel guilty for this.

As I said in my post, I am not an expert and I feel the same amount of anxiety, guilt etc with my baby as I am sure all first time mothers feel, regardless of my qualifications. I am also not a paediatrician or an expert in infant nutrition. When I was pregnant and busy reading baby magazines I saw the guidelines re infant feeding had changed from when I was at medical school. I did a medline search to look at the reasons why. What I read did not convince me there were significant benefits in delaying weaning to 26 weeks. These are my OPINIONS as a mother who has chosen to research the journal articles, they are NOT meant to be taken as professional advice. I am also used to guidelines changing, and fully aware that research can very much be shaped to show the evidence you want it to show in the absence of double-blind randomised controlled trials. What we are being told to do now re. weaning, co-sleeping and all the other emotive topics out there will most likely be different in 5-years time. We do what we feel is best for our child and I don't think we should feel guilty for not following guidelines to the letter or for following them and then retrospectively feeling guilty if they change.

Therefore my point to MsPea was meant in the sense that she said her daughter had enjoyed the rice and seemed sad when it had gone, but MsPea seemed worried the rice had been harmful in that her daughter had then had diarrhoea. I personally do not feel that MsPea has necessarily started too early or that she has done her daughter any harm in offering foods earlier than recommended.

I also said the breast milk remains nutritionally superior for a long time and that babies continue to need lots of milk despite food being introduced. I am horrified to think that my comments have been interpreted as denigrating the importance of milk for a baby. I am very very sorry if that is the case.

I will not post again on this thread as I do not want to further detract from the support MsPea was seeking. I offer my apologies once again for upset caused, and I thank Aloha for the very interesting comments she made which I found very helpful.

[MsPea]

No need to apologise. As I say, I think there have been some really interesting and important points raised. I'm glad you posted jools.

I'm a dr too actually! Definitely doesn't lessen the uncertainty... in fact dp defers to me on medical or quasi medical matters which I guess is reasonable but I find it slightly unsettling.

I agree very much with your point about being the expert when it comes to your own child. Takes a bit of time to build up confidence though doesn't it!