Have I started weaning my breastfed baby too soon?

[MsPea]

Hi there,

Yesterday, on the advice of my HV, I gave my 19 week old dd baby rice and again today. This was because she has dropped from the 9th centile where she was born and stayed until recently onto the 2nd centile. Also she looks interested in our food but has not noticeably begun feeding or waking more often.

Since the first baby rice she has had watery diahorrea so that virtually every nappy change involves changing her clothes. Also she had a bad night (though of course she dose have them; it could have been concincidence).

Shall I stop? Have we started too early? Sad to see her with the squits.

[Twinklemegan]

Thought about it VVVQV before you posted - duh!

[hatwoman]

i too came back to apologise to MsPea. (have been at work all day) sorry if my interventions got in the way of the advice you were asking for. I'm glad that you were glad jools posted. I too thought her original post was valid and interesting. (though whether or not I agree with it is a different matter which I have no intention of entering into! )

[anonymousdr]

Good post Jools, and no need to apologise!

I'm very very sorry if you felt jumped on, especially by me, as I certainly didn't intend it that way. My apologies if that's so. I know how emotive these things are and I bet you're stressing about going back to work (I did).

I agree with everything you say about how (as parents) we make the best decisions we can, which is the important thing after all.

Regarding the guidelines: we'll just have to agree to differ. I think they're pretty good, considering the lack of rock solid evidence.

I agree that they'll probably change as time goes by, BUT, from the research coming out now, I'm fairly certain that if the 6 month recommendation changes, it will be to increase the duration of exclusive breastfeeding.

Another strong possibility is that parents will be advised to limit solids in the early months of weaning, ie keep milk very much predominant.

In other words, I and other 6 month weaners are likely to be the "early weaners" of the future....

Sorry Ms Pea for the hijack, but you see what a controversial topic this is..... at the same time, keeping it all in persepective, it seems soooo important when you're weaning your baby, and soooo trivial a year or 2 down the line!

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

Twinkle - think about what you said....

They are recommending exclusive b/feeding for the first 6 months.......

This is based on extensive research....

[Aloha]

Joolsandoliver, pleased you found my comments helpful. I weaned my mixed-fed son at 4months (as recommended) and my exclusively breastfed daughter just before six months (she got hold of some banana!). I think it was easier at six months - she was sitting up much better, I didn't bother with purees or even jars, just gave her mashed up food. My only problem was that she was so easy to feed and I was so much more relaxed about it that I got carried away and started giving her all sorts, which gave her awful tummy ache, so I'd advise being a bit less gung-ho than I was! But neither child seemed remotely emotionally involved with their food. They liked it or didn't, were hungry or not. I really, honestly don't think it is a huge deal and think Annabel Karmel has a lot to answer for! Please do enjoy your baby - she'll be massive and scarfing down chips before you know it. Good luck.

[Twinklemegan]

What I meant is that the WHO couldn't really be recommending exclusive b/f to six months but on the other hand give the OK to weaning from 4 months onwards. That would be a really mixed message. I'm not suggesting for one minute that the weaning research has been shaped, just that this would be a reason to do so if they were so inclined IWSWIM. Shall I stop digging now?

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

What fits in TM?

[Twinklemegan]

Obviously a contraversial point and not one I necessarily subscribe to, but it fits in conveniently with the advice to b/f exclusively for 6 months.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

"I am also used to guidelines changing, and fully aware that research can very much be shaped to show the evidence you want it to show in the absence of double-blind randomised controlled trials."

Who would want to shape research suggesting weaning should be delayed, and why? What benefit would this be to anyone - apart from to the babies?

I dont think the WHO would have any agenda as such....?

[kiskidee]

i still find the good doctor's comments on 'experts' intriguing and not fully addressed.

i thought that unicef, the who and the doh employed very well informed medical practitioners and researchers to advise the public on things like infant feeding and weaning. This expert takes the 'expertise' of these organisations into consideration when I decided on how to feed and wean my dd.

As for the guidelines changing 5 yrs from now, well i think the 6 month weaning guideline has been in place for nearly 10 yrs and will be amazed if they are reduced again in anything like the next 5 yrs. I wouldn't be amazed though if it was increased from 6 mos.

[chipmonkey]

Jools, I know you weren't going to post again on this thread but just to give you my Mum's experience with my brother who had really, really severe reflux. The advice back then (80's) was to wean to solids at 12 weeks which she did but in her opinion it didn't alleviate his symptoms at all, and if anything, made things worse. I must stress that his reflux was very severe, leading to complications and he ended up needing surgery at 13, never having "grown out of it" and your dd is probably nothing like as bad as my brother, but just felt I should say it. She ended up breastfeeding him for 3 years as it was the only source of nutrition he could tolerate reasonably well.

[MsPea]

No need to apologise. As I say, I think there have been some really interesting and important points raised. I'm glad you posted jools.

I'm a dr too actually! Definitely doesn't lessen the uncertainty... in fact dp defers to me on medical or quasi medical matters which I guess is reasonable but I find it slightly unsettling.

I agree very much with your point about being the expert when it comes to your own child. Takes a bit of time to build up confidence though doesn't it!

[joolsandoliver]

I would like to apologise to MsPea for the hijacking of her post. I did not mean to cause such controversy or upset to you all and I am sorry if you have interpreted my post in that way, I obviously have not expressed myself very eloquently.

MsPea said that on the advice of her HV she had done something she now feels unsure of, my point was meant to mean much more "who are the experts" than I AM A DOCTOR. My only point as a doctor in this post is going to be that as a mother you are the expert of your own child. MsPea and everyone else should of course listen to their HV, but this does not mean you should take as gospel what you are told as you will surely know if it will suit your child or not. All my other points are made as a mother and an individual with an opinion - NOT as a doctor.

I said in my post do what suits you and your baby, and I stand by that. We all parent in different ways and we parent different babies differently as well. Some babies will need weaning earlier than the guidelines recommend and my concern is that mothers are made to feel guilty for this.

As I said in my post, I am not an expert and I feel the same amount of anxiety, guilt etc with my baby as I am sure all first time mothers feel, regardless of my qualifications. I am also not a paediatrician or an expert in infant nutrition. When I was pregnant and busy reading baby magazines I saw the guidelines re infant feeding had changed from when I was at medical school. I did a medline search to look at the reasons why. What I read did not convince me there were significant benefits in delaying weaning to 26 weeks. These are my OPINIONS as a mother who has chosen to research the journal articles, they are NOT meant to be taken as professional advice. I am also used to guidelines changing, and fully aware that research can very much be shaped to show the evidence you want it to show in the absence of double-blind randomised controlled trials. What we are being told to do now re. weaning, co-sleeping and all the other emotive topics out there will most likely be different in 5-years time. We do what we feel is best for our child and I don't think we should feel guilty for not following guidelines to the letter or for following them and then retrospectively feeling guilty if they change.

Therefore my point to MsPea was meant in the sense that she said her daughter had enjoyed the rice and seemed sad when it had gone, but MsPea seemed worried the rice had been harmful in that her daughter had then had diarrhoea. I personally do not feel that MsPea has necessarily started too early or that she has done her daughter any harm in offering foods earlier than recommended.

I also said the breast milk remains nutritionally superior for a long time and that babies continue to need lots of milk despite food being introduced. I am horrified to think that my comments have been interpreted as denigrating the importance of milk for a baby. I am very very sorry if that is the case.

I will not post again on this thread as I do not want to further detract from the support MsPea was seeking. I offer my apologies once again for upset caused, and I thank Aloha for the very interesting comments she made which I found very helpful.

[MsPea]

Hello again!

Have been intrigued to read all of this. I still feel happy with my decision at the moment. We're going to see how we go.

I had no idea until I began bf (dd is my first) what an emotionally intense experience it was going to be ... sounds mad perhaps, but there has been nothing previously in my life remotely similar that might have shaped my expectations.

I'm v glad to have had the opportunity (well most of the time! Less so at 3am ). dd was a not-particularly-well-timed surprise and sometimes it has been hard to make the life changes her arrival has required. But bf her has been one of the biggest unexpected joys.

I also had little idea of the decisions and debates that surround bf within a Westernised society, and how emotive these can be. Really it is a fascinating subject.

[mears]

Babyfriendly

[mears]

Having read through this thread again I would like to comment on the fact that joolsandoliver did infact say she wasn't an expert despite being a doctor and she is unsure who 'experts' are.
I think that there are enough resources out there to support the 'expert' opinion and these can be found on \link{http://www.babyfriendly.org.uk/the Babyfriendly website}

I get fed up seeing that the 6 month recommendation is for third world babiers only - it applies equally to the UK. It also applies to bottle fed babies as Twinklemegan pointed out.

There are a few issues mixed up here too. Having had 4 children, there isn't really a big deal about starting solids IMO - returning to work is not any easier by having a baby on solid food. The key essential is planning ahead if you are breastfeeding. If you want to continue to exclusively breastfeed then you need to stock pile EBM in the freezer and express when you are at work. You can get extremely slick at it believe me

AS with everything, there are guidelines out there to help inform. Parents are entitled to make their individual decisions on when to waen their babies either taking that advice on board ro rejecting it.

Jools wishes to reject it - that is fine.

I personally never achieved 6 months exclusive breastfeeding till my 4th baby because I lacked total confidence till then. Earliest I weaned was 20 weeks. At that time the recommendation was 16 weeks so I felt pretty good.

If I had a new baby all over again it would be 6 months. That would be my personal choice.

[yellowrose]

I don't know if you have been reading the other threads where one new poster claimed to be a qualified Breasfeeding Councillor and it turns out she wasn't.

I am not saying jools was doing the same thing, but re. the other woman, it was the posters who picked up on it first, not MN watch tower.

[yellowrose]

hatwoman - you have been defending jools right from the minute go. I thought she might like to defend herself and her views in person.

[yellowrose]

Eh no, I think posters should pick up on poor, ill-founded advice or comments too.

[hatwoman]

because she doesn;t seem to be around, and because it winds me up when people get jumped on. because it's the kind of thing that puts people off mn and because when people jump on you it's nice to know not everyone feels the same. with due respect

[hatwoman]

oh for gods sake. she specifically said she wasn't an expert and that being a doctor didn;t make her one (we don;t even know what kind of doctor she is). anyone who doesn;t double check advice on mn with other sources is, tbh, daft. and as for "I felt she had to be told" if someone's post is so inappropriate as to need being "told" not to post in such a manner then report to mn hq. They're the only ones entitled to do any "telling".

[yellowrose]

hatwoman - with due respect, why don't let jools speak for herself ?

[hatwoman]

"jumped in all guns blazing"?? she didn't at all. and as for recognising the shortcomings of "expert" advice I'd far rather have an expert that recognised this than one who thought what they/experts on a particular area said was gospel.

[yellowrose]

My GP and HV don't speak or write very differently to jools unfortuntaly, which is why I felt she had to be told to stop commenting on things she obvioulsy does not have sufficient knowledge of.

Although I appreciate she may be new here as well as being a first time mum, I don't think it is appropriate to talk about her personal experiences or anxieties as A MUM in the same breath as saying I AM A DOCTOR.

As kiskedee points out, I would be very concerned if this is what she is doing in her surgery.

It is important to let people know that inappropriate and inaccurate advice on the internet (or in a surgery) may lead to a mother weaning her baby off the breast or onto solids sooner than advised by most bf experts.

[kiskidee]

i take it joolsandoliver, that you are fairly new at reading and posting on MN.

it is a very emotive issue and you seem to have jumped in all guns blazing with little research into the topic.

with your disdain for all 'expert' advice, surely you are in the wrong profession and maybe the creative arts would be more your arena. it would send a shiver down my spine if i thought my gp felt this way about expert advice.