Who will you be cheering for?

[Maggiethecat]

Excited for the women's 100m sprint in Tokyo today. Happy that Dina is in good shape but defo cheering for the Jamaicans.

How is it in your house when a british athlete is up against someone from the country of your family heritage?

[LizziesTwin]

One of the reasons for the concentration in track events is the sponsorship of top athletes. What’s the point in investing time in sports like hockey or swimming when you can’t play it professionally and make a good living? Boxing, football, athletics, baseball, basketball can all lead to financial security.

[Maggiethecat]

Well, it wasn't a wan, two, tree but it was spectacular! Elaine clocking the second fastest time ever in this event. The double double!!.

Shelley Ann didn't medal but she's still arguably the GOAT.

Gabby Thomas, the American has a Jamaican dad so we'll take her!

Wan and tree! 🤣

[EchoNan]

You are making me laugh all through these Olympics Maggie.
I love that you are so proud of Jamaicans.
Wan and tree it is!

[Maggiethecat]

It's all good fun! I miss that I don't live in London anymore where we have lots of Jamaican friends and family. A group of us together loudly celebrating the wins, having heated discussions and predictions would probably have the neighbours call the cops (when DD1 was very young she would be upset that the friends at these home gatherings were cross with each other 🤣)

Watch out for the women's 100m relay! Hopefully a new world record but if not the gold will do!!

[Maggiethecat]

Just enjoyed watching these beautiful sistas doing their thing and jamming (a BBC radio 1 xtra (aka a Big Ben exclusive 🤣).

Covering Dennis Brown, Marcia Griffiths, Beres Hammond - irie vibes - "nuttin nah mess up mi mood, we jus' a walk and groove!"

[Jamdown123]

My children love that tune, they sing along so sweetly. And I love that it's not an overly sexual performance, they're just jamming (or 'jammin' as my girl Alex Scott would say!)

I don't get this thing about women with higher testosterone levels not being able to run the 400m, but being eligible for 200m? All this chopping and changing is ruining people's careers.

And I don't see too many white women being impacted by this, but that may be my bias, maybe lots of white female throwers have been exed out of their events too?

I just don't understand how tester one is a naturally occurring hormone in every person on this earth, including women of course, but that sometimes we have too much of it to complete? Lungs are naturally occurring, will some women be told their's are too big? Or their legs too long, or their muscles too strong. Why isn't there an upper limit of testosterone for men? Why isn't there a 'superman' character for men with loads of testoterone to be 'fair' to men who have less? WE ALL HAVE TESTOSTERONE. If it makes some women better, so be it.

So, I've been cheering on those women. Those black women who are apparently a little too 'not women' to complete in their chosen sports.

[Jamdown123]

superman category. New pc, not yet discovered how to turn off corrective typing,

[Maggiethecat]

@Jamdown123 - it has a a real old school vibe. I've never heard of these singers but from the name thought that Naomi Cowan was related to Tommy and then looked her up and see that she is Carlene Davis' daughter- she looks just like her!

Don't know much about DSD but wonder how it is deemed to give an advantage at one distance but not another? And as you say, why is too much testosterone in males not considered an unfair advantage. And who determines what is considered a fair level of testosterone - do you take the average naturally occurring in women?

Mboma is going to be a real contender in the 200m in future. She's young and she hasn't even sorted out her start, having suddenly been moved down from 400m.

Keep an eye on Flo Jo's world record!

[Jamdown123]

Yeah, I just don't like the way black women fall foul of being too 'manly' so often. I remember all the digs at the Williams sisters etc. And of course that feeds into so much of the treatment of us as inhumane, or not as delicate as white women. I recall the last few Olympics, all of the furore about Semenya, and the white GB runners crying during interviews afterwards saying it wasn't fair. now I know Semenya is a case where Y chromosome was depicted, but it is still the white women's weaponised tears thing that gets me everytime....

[Heiferr]

Lovely to wake up to another win for Jamaica. Grant Holloway was the favourite to win and he's clearly very talented but Hansle Parchment managed to get past him. Wish I'd been able to see it live but there is no way 4am was seeing me this morning!

[EchoNan]

Good morning all! I was up in the early hours, so saw Hansle Parchment win. What a nation! You must be bursting with pride.

Delighted to see Dina Asher Smith and GB in the relay final for Friday winning with a new national record. (And she managed to run faster than Jam in her part of the relay)

[Heiferr]

@EchoNan

Good morning all! I was up in the early hours, so saw Hansle Parchment win. What a nation! You must be bursting with pride.

Delighted to see Dina Asher Smith and GB in the relay final for Friday winning with a new national record. (And she managed to run faster than Jam in her part of the relay)

DAS is an absolute powerhouse! I just hope that she'll be ok with her injury. After seeing what happened to KJT yesterday, it makes me nervous

[Maggiethecat]

@EchoNan - you deserve a medal for being up to watch that race!
@Heiferr - wish I could've seen it live too but will leave it to youngsters like Echo to do the cheering!!

I didn't realise that Parchment was only third at the Jamaican trials in June and that his compatriot the defending champion Omar McLeod finished last in the race having crashed into hurdles and so was not allowed to attend the Olympics? (I can imagine the furore that caused there but the rules are the rules)

And yet we managed to get a wan and tree!! 😂

But seriously, despite Jamaica's success in this event I don't think the hurdlers are celebrated as much as the flat race sprinters (how many people remember McLeod's win in Rio?). Parchment in his post race interview refers to this and hopes that events other than the flat sprints, including field events will be promoted in Jamaica going forward.

Happy for Dina and hope the team do well. But, bear in mind that Jamaica's team for the heats did not include Elaine or Shelly Ann 😀

[EchoNan]

But, bear in mind that Jamaica's team for the heats did not include Elaine or Shelly Ann

Lol! @Maggiethecat you have Jam written right through you.

I'm also watching the cricket at Trent Bridge, (England v.India).
We had a minibus leave ours early hours .taking some of the local team over. ( The racket and banter woke me up)

Michael Holding doing the voice over on TV at the moment. ( He's got such a lovey voice)
Another Jamaican! One of the greatest bowlers in Test cricket. He was known as "The whispering death" because of his deadly technique.

I need to take my money out of premium bonds and invest in Yams!

[Maggiethecat]

@EchoNan - not sure if I have it enough to stay up to watch the finals at 2.30am tomorrow!

Mikey Holding - legend! I saw him last year while doing cricket commentary and speaking movingly about BLM. He in very simple terms explained that all lives did not matter until black lives matter. He spoke about the colourism experienced in his own family when his mother's family would not accept his dad because he was very dark. He spoke about unsuccessfully trying to hail a cab in London when a friend suggested that Mikey put his light skinned wife in front to hail the cab to which he retorted that he would rather walk. Love Mikey (and he had the dreamiest eyes when he was young 😂)

[EchoNan]

He is an incredible man, principled and honourable are the words that come to my mind @Maggiethecat. Sadly, I missed him talking about BLM.

I remember when Ebony Rainford-Brent started doing cricket commentary. ( Love her!) She was a bit in awe of him in the commentary box.
He was so encouraging, but not patronising. He clearly was her cricket hero!

[Starseeking]

I can't actually believe what I'm reading here, this is disgraceful:

www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/sebastian-coe-christine-mboma-tokyo-2020-b1896611.html

Then you have athletes like Laurel Hubbard being welcomed in to join women's sports:

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/02/laurel-hubbards-olympic-dream-dies-under-worlds-gaze

Why why why are Black women always being held back??? It makes me want to weep with frustration.

[Maggiethecat]

@Starseeking - we had this conversation at the dinner table yesterday and still don't understand why it's ok for Laurel to compete but that there are restrictions on women like Mboma.

Maybe someone can explain the distinction to me?!!

[Maggiethecat]

Sorry to mislead - I think the relays are in the afternoon tomorrow

[Avocadowoman]

Sorry to but into the thread but I wanted to try to answer the question about Mboma.

Different sports have different regulations, so Laurel Hubbard (a male) had to lower testosterone to below nanomoles per litre for 12 months.

Mboma is female on her birth certificate, but falls under the IAAF (athletics) rules for athletes with a DSD (disorder of sexual development) found here:
www.worldathletics.org/news/press-release/questions-answers-iaaf-female-eligibility-reg

For these rules to be applicable, she has to have XY chromosomes (see link and copied below)

1. Which athletes fall under the DSD regulations?

The DSD regulations only apply to individuals who are:

legally female (or intersex) and
who have one of a certain number of specified DSDs, which mean that they have:
male chromosomes (XY) not female chromosomes (XX)
testes not ovaries
circulating testosterone in the male range (7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L) not the (much lower) female range (0.06 to 1.68 nmol/L); and
the ability to make use of that testosterone circulating within their bodies (i.e., they are ‘androgen-sensitive’).

And therefore if she wanted to compete in certain distances then she has to:

1. What do such athletes have to do to be eligible to compete in the female classification?

If they are competing below international level, they do not have to do anything. They can compete without restriction.

If they are competing at international level, in one of the affected events (track races between 400m and one mile in distance), they first have to lower the level of testosterone in their blood down to below 5 nmol/L (because that is the highest level that a healthy woman with ovaries would have) for a period of six months, and maintain it below that level while they continue to compete at international level in such events.

If they want to compete at international level in other events, again they can compete without restriction, i.e., without lowering their testosterone levels.

To lower their testosterone levels in this way, affected athletes can either (a) take a daily oral contraceptive pill; or (b) take a monthly injection of a GnrH agonist; or (c) have their testes surgically removed (a ‘gonadectomy’). It is their choice whether or not to have any treatment, and (if so) which treatment to have. In particular, the IAAF does not insist on surgery. The effects of the other two treatments are reversible if and when the athlete decides to stop treatment.



Depending on your point of view, it is:
unfair to biological women (XX chromosomes) that Mboma can compete at all or
unfair that the IAAF has different rules to other sports which would allow a higher testosterone cut off or
anyone who is legally female should not have to lower testosterone at all (which, now it is possible for people to legally change sex, would effectively signal the end of any female (XX chromosomes) winning medals.

[Starseeking]

How can it be unfair to biological women for Mbow's to compete when she IS a biological woman @Avocadowoman? All this stuff about testosterone makes no sense to me, as that should only apply to non-biological women.

All I see is (yet another) Black woman being told she has to alter what comes naturally to her in order to be placed equally alongside other women.

Out of interest, do you know if any non-Black women have been affected by this new category restricting testosterone in biological women? I'd never heard of it until a couple of hours ago!

[Starseeking]

*Mboma

[Maggiethecat]

@Avocadowoman - that helps to understand what is happening but seriously, how do they determine what's an acceptable level of testosterone? should times/performances not therefore be adjusted to account for some athletes having a greater amount than others?

It seems ludicrous that this woman is being penalised for having naturally occurring high levels of the hormone.

[Starseeking]

It gets worse...I've gone down a rabbit hole, and now I can't unsee.

Apparently this sex testing of female athletes (but never of men) has been legally going on for some years now. This poor Asian lady tried to kill herself over it. As far as I can see, only ethnic minority women have been publically revealed to have gone through this testing, yet no fuss is being made. I wonder why that could be???

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/29446276

[EchoNan]

Another confused person here.
Thanks for the explanation. @Avocadowoman.
Which raises more questions for me also.

1)Is this the same/similar issue that Caster Semenaya faced?
(And was treated appallingly imo)
2) If so, this has been going on for many years now and the Olympic Committee ( or whoever) still seem to be moving the goal posts.
3) Has this been picked up in female athletes who are white, or is it something that seems unique to black female athletes?