At what age would you expect a child to wipe their own bottom? Should nursery help with this?

[blueskythinker]

My DD 3.4 has just started nursery school. She would be one of the youngest in the class, having an early June birthday.

She is very competent at using the toilet, apart from wiping her bottom. At home, she just gives me a shout, and I wipe it for her. I have tried to encourage her to do it herself, but she isn't interested.

I noticed last week after coming home from nursery, that her bottom hadn't been wiped after a poo. I asked her do the teachers help her to wipe her bottom and she said no.

Before I discuss it with the teacher, I wanted to gauge what 'normal' was. Are all other children this age wiping their own bottom's successfully? Would you expect teachers / TAs in nursery school to help children with this?

[singersgirl]

Penelope Leach (oh child-rearing guru) says that children don't have long enough arms to wipe their bums. Certainly even if mine could reach at 3 they weren't very competent. DS1 took a long time to become competent and when he was in reception I wiped lots of little 4 year old playmates' bums.

[sandyballs]

Well my 7.5 year old still tries to call me in to wipe her bum. I have started to put my foot down .

[Smithagain]

Thank goodness for Penelope Leach - I was beginning to think my daughters must have abnormally short arms LOL!

[PrimroseHall]

My DS is 6 and still can't wipe his own bum properly. He's like your DS ODB - very anxious about getting poo on his hands and has the ability to hold it in for a very long time.

In an ideal world teachers/helpers would be assisting with bum wiping, but I doubt they'd get much else done. Also it repulses me to have to do it for my own child, let alone dozens of non-related children. I think most children can cope once they're in school, either by holding it in until home time or cleaning up as best as they can. My DS was only in nursery for 2.5 hours at a time, so there wasn't much chance of him needing a poo while he was there. I'm sure the staff would have been a lot more understanding if he had have needed their help then they would be now, in year 2.

[hannahsaunt]

Ds1 still had teachers checking that all was ok (as in asked them if they were fine or if they needed a hand) in reception (he finished reception aged 5.5).

Ds2 is 5.75 and still calls to be wiped; apparently he doesn't poo at school for that very reason (and does so like clockwork approx 5 mins after going to bed regardless of the time at which he went to bed)

[jennifersofia]

I had to remind my 7.5 yr old the other day! She had got distracted and was standing up in the bathroom reading the Beano about 10 min after she had 'finished'.

[nooka]

I think it probably depends on whether it is a nursery that takes babies, or a pre-school. Mine went to the former and I have no idea what they did, but I assume assistance was provided when needed. It certainly wasn't an issue. I'm guessing with a pre-school set up, where the children are generally older, an dnot there for very long there is probably less personal assistance. If your dd doesn't want to ask for help then you need to start her off with bottom wiping, even if she isn't very good at it to start off with. Mine would wipe and then stick their bums up in the air for checking, and were certainly doing a good enough job by the time they went off to school.

[caoutchouc]

IMO They should definitely be supervising both toileting and handwashing of children of this age.

Ready to step in with guidance and help if required.

Some can manage well independently and some can't, but it's neglectful not to supervise and find out each child's competence.

In a group childcare setting I would be more concerned by absent or inadequate handwashing after self bum wiping by 3 year olds than I would by skiddy pants at hometime.

[goldilocksandmylittlebear]

blueskythinker, I was really shocked by some of the 'less helpful' comments on this thread, not to mention 'allgonebellyup'........like I said i'm not going to even go there with her comment!

I think as in all aspects of development, not all children can wipe themselves at aged 3 and a bit. The nursery will treat each child individually and get them ready for school and being able to do this independantly.

Have a chat wit her teacher and go from there. Good luck!

[ActingNormal]

I'm a bit worried reading this that I haven't even asked my DS (3.5) to wipe his own bum, I've just assumed he wouldn't be able to and done it for him. We are still working on getting him to sit in the correct position and tuck his willy in so that he doesn't sit on the toilet but do a wee fountain all over the bathroom!

My DD (5.4) tries to wipe her bum but doesn't seem very co-ordinated about it and doesn't give it a good scrub for long enough and her pants are often full of skids (sorry .

I can see I need to work on this as my kids sound less advanced than the others on here

[singersgirl]

ActingNormal, your kids sound quite normal to me. I think there are some precocious bum-wipers here.

Wiping your bum well is difficult for a child. It can be more or less difficult depending on a) their general co-ordination, b) the consistency of their pooh, c) the shape of their bum - DS2 found it really hard to get up far enough between his chubby cheeks without falling over/falling off the toilet, d) the quality of the toilet paper.

Getting your bum properly clean can be difficult for adults on some occasions!

[ja9]

Hmm.

After ds was potty trained, but before he wiped himself, he avoided going at nursery (full day nursery place). This resulted in me being called from work on a couple of occasions as he was doubled over crying with a sore tummy. Nursery staff were prepared to help with wiping (a few weeks before they had been changing his soiled nappy!)but ds clearly had a problem with this. So we worked hard to train him up in this area around his 3rd birthday. It started with - ds doing 2 wipes and us doing the rest, then we built it up from there.

School nurseries are different imo / ime. The expectation is that a child is toilet trained and can completely take care of themselves in that area. But then a school nursery session is only for 2.5 hrs so majority of children will just avoid going then.

[blueskythinker]

Thanks all, I clearly have some work to do. I have tried broaching the issue this weekend with my DD, suggesting that she has a go herself before I wipe her bottom, but she just says 'no, you do it'. nfortunatley she is not remotely bothered by doing a pooh at school.

[angrypixie]

BellyUp I think that was a vile thing to say. You have a duty of care - whatever the needs of that child are.

[madmummy4]

I have four kids and not once have any nursery wiped their bottoms! Nightmare when you are faced with skiddies though when they come home.I don't think they are allowed to actually, but i would have glady paid for kanndoo wipes to save their underwear.PLus it must be really unconfortable for a little one to sit in dirty underwear.
What an awful topic eh?!

[solidgoldskullonastick]

I am working on it with DS (just 4) at the moment as he is quite independent when it comes to using the loo but not that good at wiping yet, and sometimes comes home from nursery with skiddy pants.

[Cadelaide]

I think bottom-wiping is really difficult for some kids. DS is 9 and still "messes-up" sometimes.

[me23]

my dd is same age as yours, and has hjust started nursery too. I have noticed that her knickers were a bit soiled sometimes. So I asked the staff to wipe her bum as she isn't able to do it properly they were absolutely fine with it.

[frumpygrumpy]

It pisses me off that the girls at our nursery don't help......my DT1 doesn't make a good job of wiping after a poo (I have Kandoo things at home to help her) and if she is left, her bottom gets really sore, really quickly. She was 4 at the end of July.

DT2 is fine at it and my DD1 was fine by age 3.

They are all different and I can't stand this blanket policy some nurseries have. I wish to hell people would treat children with a little more dignity and respect. FFS, we don't all learn to drive or cook or become lawyers at the same rate/age.

[frumpygrumpy]

allgonebellyup........I hope your comment was a joke. If not, I think thats a shitty attitude.

[chaos321]

My son (over 5!)has only just started doing it himself, but I didn't push him, just let him do it at his own pace! wipe things helped him have the confidence to try.

Other son (4) nursery do it if required and make sure handwashing done.

I have found for our family most child development things (walking, speaking, potty training) happen best for us when the child leads them, not me!

[Twiglett]

I am ROFLing at all the people saying their children have too short arms

it's bollocks

It's an excuse that you as parents are giving them

unless they actually have a condition where their arms really are not developing to 'normal' length then they do not have too short arms

I have heard this from small children and laughed at the naivety of their parents

do not buy into it .. it is not a valid excuse

this is addressed to all those who have children without a physical or emotional issue with toileting: if you want to keep wiping your child's backside then do so .. but do not expect others to do it for them .. and if you can't put the effort in to teach them don't say it's because they're too young, too short or whatever .. it's merely because you have never expected it of them

excuses, excuses, excuses

those that CAN wipe their own bottoms are the NORM IME (through pre-school) not the exception

[Twiglett]

having an accident is not the same as not being able to do it .. all children have accidents .. it is the expectation that they are too young to do it for themselves that is disconcerting ..

child-focused let them develop at their own rate is fine if you are keeping your child at home with you but if you are sending them out to a school do not expect the people there to be bottom wipers or dressers

[Kewcumber]

DS isn;t even 3 yet and can wipe his own bottom. Not perfectly and I do check but mostly he makes a pretty god job of it.

he is small for his age (probably the size of an average 2 year old) so I don;t think the length of arms thing can be a big issue (unless DS has freakishly long arms and I've never noticed).

Get them iping with a wet wipe to start its easier and just teach them to keep wiping until the tissue is clean.

Maybe I'm lucky and DS has found his one true talent young, but it never seemed that big a deal to me.

[singersgirl]

I've never observed the length of my own children's arms in relation to bottom-wiping. However, I refer back to my original point which is that Penelope Leach in her 'bible' 'Baby and Childcare' says that many children's arms are too short in her book, so presumably it is not just naive, gullible parents who believe it but a naive, gullible, highly respected childcare expert as well. This doesn't mean she's right, but why should I believe a poster on Mumsnet rather than her?

I think the main point is that it is difficult for lots of children, they don't like doing it if they can't do it well and neither they nor their parents like them to have sticky sore bottoms.

I just don't think it's true that all normally developing children can wipe their bottoms completely successfully at three. They can't all write their names, they can't all do up buttons, they can't all ride bikes, they can't all read. Some can do all these things. Maybe most can wipe their bottoms well, but I'm sure it's well within the range of normal to find it difficult.