OMG please tell me it doesn't get any worse than this...

[PeppermintPatty]

the so called "terribles twos" - can they start at 15 months?

My DD is driving me round the bend ATM. Tantrums.
Hitting / scratching me.
Shouting "NO! NO! NO!" to everything I say.
Screaming.
Extreme fussiness.
Wanting to do things she isn't capable of(ie. climbing a big climbing frame aimed at older children with big drops on either side) and having a big strop when I stop her.
Refusing to go in her buggy.
Refusing to wear shoes - throwing them out the buggy so I nearly lose them.
Refusing to let me change her nappy.

I try distraction / bribery with food / giving her lots of attention. It sometimes works, sometimes not.

It's exhausting.

Sorry I've had a hard day

[mytetherisending]

yes it is exhausting
ok for hitting and scratching I say a firm 'no' and move her away from me.
Her saying no,no,no I would ignore or try to understand what shes saying no to. If it is putting shoes on then leave them off, after this if she wants to walk let her- she will soon learn that walking barefoot for any length of time is not pleasant. Children can't be told, they have to experience things to some degree iyswim
As for climbing big climbing frames, let her do it and just supervise her really closely until she and you are confident in her abilities. She is getting frustrated that you won't let her try to expand her limitations.

Give attention for good behaviour and limit contact and dialogue when she is naughty. If you give attention for the above things you will reinforce that she has to be naughty to get your attention, pay more time to looking for her good behaviour and give lots of praise, even if its 'well,done, you put your legs in your trousers really well' or 'well done you ate all your breakfast'. Start the day being patient and with praise. If she sees you give praise and attention for her good behaviour it will change slowly- dd1 was jealous of dd2 now 6mths, it has taken 4mths to get her behaviour back on track to how it used to be.

Behaviour usually gets better with age in respect of tantrums- mostly once they can speak they become able to verbalise problems more. I always say 'use your words and stop shouting now she is 2.

[gingernutlover]

since i had dd my nan has always said to me

"dont worry, it will get different"

not better, not worse, just different. And 3 years on I think she's right. DD is a fussy child and was a fussy baby, always somthing with her.

these days its very very loud shouting to get attention and extreme jealousy about anyone getting attention except her (even the cat got it tonight when he dared to sit on my lap) we took to ignoring it mainly when she hit about 2, doesnt make her particularly better, but makes me more chilled out about it.

past fussiness triggers have been putting on own shoes, sitting ion buggy, not sitting in buggy, being carried, not being carried, wanting to play with knives getting dressed, not getting dressed, having the pink cup, the blue cup .......

[poppetcat]

I have a 13 month old and he is already having tantrums when he doesn't get his own way. They are pretty impressive too - he throws himself on the floor! Still having a six-year-old I know they get worse before they get better. Pino Grigio always eases the stress!

[sazzerbear]

Aagh need to vent, went to park with 17 month ds, had lovely time for 2 hours (am I patient or what!!), he then screamed and went rigid when tried to get in buggy (with everyone staring). Then moaned all the way to the pub where he would not sit in high chair (more screaming), instead insistent to walk around - would not sit still until food arrived. Then managed a small amount of pasta before wanting to get down again. What a disaster - I am now £15 lighter with chronic indigestion as had to bolt down my lunch to get the hell out as quick as we could. To make matters worse my friend's toddler was impeccably behaved and my friend a little monosyllabic. I am glad i'm not alone, pour the wine!!

[wolfjane]

well, my dd is only 9 months old going on 19, she already has tantrums when she doesn't get her own way, she always makes it very clear what she wants! just would like to say that it does go on for ever sometimes, so you better fit wine taps in your houses! my 7 year old still has HUGE tantrums( he propably always will though being asd) and my ex husband is 38 and can throw huge wobblys too, no hope for my children then! I have to say it is not always easy being a parent to any child, but in support of asd mum it is totally different raising an asd child to others, it can be like raising a space alien at times, the usual methods and cures just don't work, whatever any mums with neurotypical children say or think they know they have not got a clue until it happens to them. A two year old being agressive is quite different to a large 7 year old trying to attack his 5 foot mother.

[mooa]

my nearly two year old has the odd trantrum but it never last more than a minute he started teething at 4months and had all his teeth at 1 so i guess im lucky not so lucky he had colic from birth till he was 5 months as did his brother!worse times of my life,his only stress now is he cant talk other than the odd word so its a guessing game which can be funny as hes so animated bless him, it helps that his brother is so good.

[chankins]

I found with my dds they were easy peasy as babies and toddlers, I really don't remember that many tantrums from them, but they both went through a really whingey whining manipulative kind of phase bewteen 3 and 4 years, which I found incredibly hard work, very draining, arguing with them constantly. They are 4 ad 6 now and not too much trouble !

However with ds tantrums definitely started around 7 mo, screaming and kicking if taken out of bath, or something taken from him he wasn't allowed, also major major hatred of buggy which is still ongoing !

he is 16 mo now and a very strong characher, he runs off and sulks in a corner if you tell him no. If you take something he's not allowed from him he will try to reach it and scream for half an hour or mre, nothng with distract him !

I frequently have him in either sling, on reins, buggy board or walking, as I don't drive, and I cm, so there are always other little ones around. he won't enjoy the buggy for more than 20 mins tops !

But despite all this I love him to death, think he is very intelligent and knowing for his age, he is very affectionate and soppy and I know we'll be the best of friends through life.

Hopefully if he;s started tantrums this young then he will finish them earlier !

Sympathies for all experiencing the same !
I find it helps to just laugh at them most of the time.

[hellymelly]

My sixteen month old was having terrible tantrums a month or two ago but they have lessened for some reason-nothing to do with frustration speech wise as she can talk really well,(short sentences and a huge vocabulary)so maybe it is teeth,or maybe it is just temper!

[madmarriedNika]

Apologies for huge no. of typos my keyboard isn't functioning well (along with my brain )

[madmarriedNika]

oooh I have a 15-month old DD like this too!
It's quite amazing how quickly they go from mild-mannered smiley easy to please babies to forceful, determined little brutes!!

I do recall with DS the "terrible twos" started around this time to, in a fairly big way- fortunately for us by about 2.2yrs he'd improved markedly Obviously there's still some occasions, and in fact recently he's being more deliberately (but cleverly) obtuse, but at 3.5yrs that's porbably yet aother "stage" they go through...

Agree teething, lack of clear speech and in some cases (like mine) the not-quite-but-so-nearly-walking-independently state make moods even worse.

Our solution has always been to spend as much time as possible outside the house!! In other words distraction! Or "finding" new toys (we rotate the a subsection of toys between loft and downstairs so DCs think they're getting new toys but actually they're old ones that I hide). And I do also agree to some of her strange ideas- like going on climbing frames- I let her climb up bits, or stand on a rung with her brother etc etc. But I'm probably making a rod for my own back there. When she does tantrum "properly" I put her on the floor (if she's not there already) and ignore...she can't bear this so comes to me and we have a big cuddle.

Definitely agree drinking wine in an evening to put the day behind you...and just don't think about how long this phase may continue....

[EdithsMummy]

nzbabies - Thank you sooooo much for that (what seems to be quite obvious...Now!) piece of advice! My 17 month old and I seem to argue constantly as she won't do things MY way (which she obviously doesn't agree with being the right way! lol). I think I'll def try the whole giving her a choice thing in the morning when we're getting ready to leave for the child minder's! I wonder if we'll get out the door quicker!?

[wehaveallbeenthere]

nzbabies, you are so right! I wish I had done more choices instead of "its got to be this way" when mine were little.
I find that teething though is really a general PITB.
They lose those baby teeth later on and with my youngest (she is autistic and doesn't talk , now 10 years) its all over again. I've found that a good bit of lemon makes the little gums cringe but you have to wash it off for the acid.

[nzbabies]

I find that at the mo (ds is 22 months) giving 2 choices works brilliantly. Eg if he is saying no! to putting his nappy on, ask 'do you want to put it on on the floor or the bed?' At which point he will say 'the floor' and plop down immediately into position! I hope this one keeps working! He has terrible tantrums if I don't let him feel that he is in control of what happens to him basically, say if I rushed him out of the car when he wanted to climb out himself. So any way you can give them a sense of power helps enormously, and the choices things is great! Long may it last!
Also, if he is having a tantrum and not calming down, I find saying to him "you are feeling really angry because you wanted to do this but mummy made you do this..(whatever it is)..at which point he often stops crying (maybe because it helps him make sense of his emotions or he feels heard) but then I say "but we still need to do this," and keep the boundary whatever it is, and often the tantrum ends after that and we move onto doing something else. I know how hard it is and how you can end up exhausted feeling like your fighting with them, so any tricks are good to know. Good luck!

[jais]

HI

Have just seen this thread and my ds 2 started having tantrums at 8 months, there was no other word or explanation for it, it was because he didn't want to come out of the bath! he throws himself to the floor, kicks the floor and writhes, goes a few yards and does it again and then sometimes looks to see if there's a chair or something softish and head charges it, I can definately see a career or hobbie as a centre forward in rugby.... have to laugh each time i see it, either that or ignore it!

[QueenCrystal]

i bet you're doing an amazing job - and besides, what can you do!?! i agree with TSEM -its good to have a strong personality!! Ha ha am saying this at a calm moment! My 17 month old has had tantrums for the past couple of months - same kind of stuff. she's obsessed with her shoes and freaks out if they don't go on straight away, hates the buggy etc etc.

[TheSoapEatersMum]

Ooooh thank goodness it is normal and not my bad parenting!
My Ds is now 19 months, and is soo highly strung! He does that stiff body thing, so that I can't pick him up, and then when if I do manage to, he slams his (not exactly small) head against my face nearly dislocating my jaw!!
He also bangs his forehead or chin against his cot bars if he doesn't want to be in it, so is constantly bruised.

I haven't dared take him to nursery yet because I just know that I would be the "May I have a word about Soapeater" mum!

When he is not doing this though, he is the most loving, cuddly, angelic looking boy! He sits next to me on the sofa and strokes my hair,and is just lovely

Ah well, at least they all have strong personalities!

[sazzerbear]

My 16 month was stroppy yesterday beyond belief, him and the dog were playing up as if they were ganging up on me! It seems to be down to teething, it's never ending!!

[accessorizequeen]

PP, I know you're dreading it getting worse. It may do, but the thing is that you'll get better at dealing with it. You'll find ways of calming her down or pre-empting the tantrums in the first place i.e. give her a snack she likes before you even put her in the buggy might work. I do agree with the poster who said pick your battles (or something like it) - if ds2 doesn't want to wear shoes then he goes outside with his socks on. If it hurts his feet, he'll figure it out and have them on. And with my two, I've found that it goes through cycles so it's not necessarily awful all the time. I hope that's the same for you. She may well improve when she starts to talk too.

[wehaveallbeenthere]

Okay, it's later. My autistic child is having a tantrum now. As long as she doesn't injure herself I will just let her. She is winding down. This is from my making dinner. Everyone is at the table. Dinner is served and I leave to go run some errands. They have their father there. I am gone maybe 20plus minutes. I get back and the toy room is completely trashed. Okay...two garbage bags. I sack up good toys and remove them. Everything else gets put up. My autistic child has trashed it but the older two were supposed to be watching her and the father was present but holed up in his office and appointed the duty to them.
Soooo the garbage bags get removed and the room is straightened. Less toys, less mess and no one dies.
I don't like hearing her cry but it isn't going to do her any good to not learn to keep some order. She is settling now and every now and then there is a residual squawk but the tantrums are less frequent and shorter. This one lasted maybe 7 minutes. Hope my experience is of use. Anyone else want to post how you handle a tantrum? Please share?

[wehaveallbeenthere]

meandmyjoe, I hope your situation doesn't turn out like mine. My middle child was cranky from the starting gate. She never left the tantrum stage (now 12). When she was little she would get so worked up we would gentley pour water over her because we thought she would pass out from screaming and turning red with anger. It surprised her (only needed to do it twice for her to realize we would do it again if she continuted to carry on so) and she didn't get that bad since. She does still have tantrums, just older child tantrums.
The youngest actually laughs at her when she gets that way though which is both funny and somewhat reassuring. The youngest is autistic and when she turned 8 she would have short little tantrums. I just turn off everything and leave the room. She has learned that it won't get her what she wants. I do have to take her from the attention circle occasionally in the grocery store though. Or in a shopping store lead her away from the item she wants...she can carry on like that particular item is a life or death though.

[meandmyjoe]

My ds has always been a difficult baby. He's only 13 months old and is exactly as the op described. He screaches and cries when I say no. Has always hated gettiing his nappy changes or getting dressed, always hated being in the buggy, usually ends up screaming and crying. He has got better since walking but still very different to other babies his age. I sympathise. asdmumandtascher, I really think anyone is entitled to complain about tantrums, it's difficult wheather autisitic or not. We are all grateful we have healthy, developmentally 'normal' but tantrums are worrying and draining for everyone. Mumsnet is here for ranting, complaining, seeking advice and geting reassurrance not to be shot down and judged. All children can be difficult whether autistic or not and it's our right to be able to seek answers without being made to feel guilty because our children are as you put it 'normal'.

[wehaveallbeenthere]

whomovedmychocolate, That is a good point. My youngest (and I honestly don't know of any child that isn't) is motivated more by compromise than ultimately doing things my way. She loves tie-dyed t-shirts (has 2 that are her favorites) and although she has others Mondays go easier if she has one of those instead of something else to wear. It makes for one less battle before school.

[whomovedmychocolate]

I'm ignoring the 'my kid is worse than your kid because...' bit.

dBut I do think it's worth letting your kids win sometimes, I let DD go out in her wellies in hot sunshine if she wants (she loves her wellies - they are red) because it's not going to actually hurt her and hey, if it gets her in the car within twenty minutes, it's a good deal - I can always change her shoes later anyway.

[wehaveallbeenthere]

night asdmum, I'm out too.