How to deal - minimal breakfast and a fight, or nothing to eat and no fight?

[katepol]

Dd is 4. Staring school in Spet. Bright, energetic, argumentative, very skinny (only weighs 2 stone).

She is not interested in breakfast. From what I can see, she isn't keen on eating till she's been up for a few hours. Hwr, when she is a pre school, the first snack isn't till about 10.30am, which I feel is too late for the first fuel of the day.

We have tried different foods, cajoling, bribing, threatening. Once rilled though, she tends to get a grump about everything...

So, should we just give it up and let her go without eating (and drinking btw)anything, or should we insist, deal with the loud, angry, drawn out consequences, with the satisfaction that she has eaten a couple of teaspoons worth of cereal?

She is not a best eater at the best of times, and at the mo is extremely oppositional, so we have been trying to be low key, and just offer food and accept when she refuses. What would you do?

[LIZS]

no I didn't intend to sound sanctimonious, just that I could see an underlying logic to your dd's behaviour. I tend not to eat breakfast with the kids except occasionally at the weekend but dh does if he is around. On weekdays mine may well be a yoghurt or toast sometimes sat at table, sometimes not. So I am far from the perfect example.

Your dd may or may not pick up when she has a school regime, gets more tired and has to eat to a defined time pattern. dd's eating habits have always been fairly erratic, not exactly fussy but variable in quantity and substance, and she is tiny (15kg at almost 6) but since starting full time school including eating formally with her peers at midday, her appetite has changed .

[TheLadyEvenstar]

Kate,
I have had the same problem with my son for yrs now he is now almost 9. His breakfast this morning consisted of 4 rich tea biscuits and a glass of milk. I allow him to eat when he is hungry and dont force the issue. I would rather send him to school in a good mood than upset as we have had a battle. I live by the idea that if he is hungry he will eat and if he isn't he won't. But then I am not a breakfast eater until I have been up a far old while. Instead a cup of tea will do me lol.

Each child is different and you may find once she starts nursery she will want to eat in the morning as she is burning off energy and has nothing to sustain it. Play it by ear but let her eat or not eat what she wants in the morning it saves battles and rows.

Good Luck

[katepol]

Witchandchips, I like your thinking...dd is more likely to go for this than any other tactic, so I will try it on the next morning she refuses...

LIZS, I assume you don't intend to sound sanctimonious, but this issue is not about examples or habits. I have three children, two of whom are fine with what we do (and we do sit down as a family to eat, just not at breakfast when just the children do...). It is an issue with dds solely, because she is just one of those children I am afraid.

Thanks for your help though . I am of course assuming that you haven't had a tricky eater, because I think those whose children DO eat assume it is because it is something they have done, rather than very good fortune

[LIZS]

in that case I think you have to decide either to set an example , by making time to sit down and eat something properly(doesn't have to be much) or to accept she is going to snack as you do. You can't reasonably expect her to do something you don't do yourself, even if casually just for 5 minutes. dd is evry skinny but will eat breakfast because dh and ds do, it is a habit.

[witchandchips]

Think perhaps that she should eat in the same way as you do.
So if you eat an apple while you're getting dressed, share it with her. Offer her a handful of cereal as you are getting yourself one. Give her half your toast and sit her up on the worksurface as you are loading the dishwasher. (do you see what i mean)

Think that then eating becomes a social thing and is not something that is done to her

[jackie2kids]

Mine rarely eat until mid morning. I encourage them to drink milk.

[ThomCat]

Well hpow about offering her in a fun way:

• stewed apple
  
• bit of chopped up boiled up and served with pancakes
  
• an apple and a glass of milk or her fav juice
  
• toast with spread
  
• cereal
  
  Her siblings get the same offer.
  
  If they choose the night before it takes the stress out of the morning.
  
  Then just leave her to get on with her choice and whether she chooses to actually eat it or not.
  
  As long as what she does eat is healthy then try not to worry.
  
  Pushing her, stressing etc will make a big issue out of food and drive her further away from it and she sounds like she has a strong will and she'll just dig her heels in even harder.
  
  I used to hate food when I was a kid, was painfully thin. If people forced me to eat it made me more miserable and I found ways to hide food. I grew out of it and I'm sure she will too.

[katepol]

Thanks ThomCat..

LIZS, dd is picky - won't eat bananas, plain yog, any fruit except apples. Have tried involving her in buying and food prep - doesn't help. We get lovely home made things she still won't eat!

TBH, food used to be a huge issue for her (and therefore us). I count my blessings that while she is not good compared with many of her peers, mealtimes are no longer to be dreaded. Hence my desire not to allow breakfast to become a big issue...

Oh, and I only eat breakfast on the run myself, and don't actually feel hungry for a while after I get up Hwr, as an adult, I MAKE myself have something...

[witchandchips]

Get her to sit at the table while you have breakfast. Don't make an issue of whether she eats or not. Give her some fruit or an oatcake to eat on the way to school

[ThomCat]

What if she helped prep her breakfast teh night before a bit, or she chose from a menu the night before and then helped you prepare the last bits in the morning, so giving her some of that control?

You could type out an A4 sheet and offer

• pancakes with fruit (you can buy packet stuff to save time / strss)
  
• fruit and yoghurt
  
• toasst with choice of spread
  
• coissants with jam
  
• cereal
  
  and then she chooses and you could lay the table so she spreads her own jam or pours her own cereal and milk from jug etc????
  
  Make it as fun as you can maybe. Take out the stress factor and replace with light hearted fun and smiles??????

[LIZS]

I would n't even call it breakfast ! Put out some sliced banana or fruit mixture(possibly kept a bowl in fridge), large pot of yoghurt and some oaty cereal and let her make a concoction. btw do you eat breakfast ?

[ThomCat]

katepol - no don't give in and offer 'bad' food. That'll make a rod for your back that you don't want.
My friends son won't eat anything but wotsits and cocktail sausages. Hmmmm, actually the truth is she offered them and now he won't eat anything but that. It's always on offer so why would he suddenly say yes to bland weatabix and an apple etc?

[ThomCat]

Hi collision, I'm well thanks sweet, and how about you?
I'm due in about 3 months. Apart from struggling to get comfy in bed for first 10 mins I forget i'm pregnant most days, that's the beauty of no 3 I guess.

[katepol]

Orm and Bam - thanks, I think you are echoing my thoughts...

Collision - we have been offering and then accepting her refusal for about 10 days now. Today she decided she would have some cereal, who knows about tomorrow!?

It really is a contol thing - she does it with other things too (and used to vomit on demand when younger, because we would then have to deal with it and give her attention...). Hwr, food is important, and she is so skinny!

I am just going with the low key thing and trust that she will get over it given time.

I am loathe to give her 'bad' food just so she will eat, as it would be counterproductive .

Luckily pre school don't find her not eating to be having any impact on her concentration etc (and I have just read her transfer form for school - very proud!), but she would be just as tricky about food there. It really is her way or no way sometimes, so I guess I just need to pick my battles carefully....

Ta again!

[Lazycow]

ds has never liked breakfast much. He usually gets hungry at around 9/10am and needs a sanck then . He then eats a good lunch and/or dinner. That is how he is, it seems pointless fighting it to me.

[LizzieO]

Hi there

Just re-iterating what everyone else is saying i guess, but my DS is 2.8, normally he has quite healthy appetite and will finish off big bowl of porridge in morning and eat most of lunch and tea etc, however some days he'll hardly eat anything at all, i usually don't worry too much becaue i know he'll get his usual appetite back. Again i don't just stick to cereal i offer fruit, yoghurts etc, and even............sometimes a biscuit i think it def best not to make a big thing of it.
We recently went to Spain, apart from his porridge in the morning all he would eat his crisps ! when we got back he just went back to his usual healthy appetite
BTW - i don't have breakfast, my appetite doesn't usually kick in till 10.00ish
Good Luck

[collision]

Hi TC! When is child number 3 due and how are you?

[ThomCat]

One of my Dd's the same, just not up for breakfast as a rule, liek her mother and father, she can't eat when she first wakes up.
So she has her milk at the table while her sister eats, and she has maybe a slice or 2 of banana and then we all go up to get dressed and she'll bring a bit f toast with her.

She eats such a healthy lunch and tea I don't let it owrry me.

As you say your DD is Bright and energetic so I wouldn't stress. That'll only do more harm than good to everyone involved.

[collision]

Yeah, back off now and dont let her think it is getting to you.

What happened this morning?

Ds2 had weetabix with syrup today!

[OrmIrian]

Ooh dear. Sounds like she likes the sense of control. I think you need to just let it go for a while. I know that everyone needs breakfast but in this case I'd just leave it. Perhaps she'll come to it of her own accord. You can't force a child to eat. And she will get a snack mid mornning. Not an ideal situation I know but sometimes you have to go with the flow.

[Bamzooki]

< but does use food as a control thing a bit... >
I think you have answered your own question here really - the last thing you should do imho is to make a bigger deal out of this than it already is.
Yes ideally she should eat before school, but for now I think it is more important to remove the microscope from her eating habits so she can't use it as lever on you.
Totally ignore what she does or doesn't eat. Also don't forget that if she is of slight build then she may be able to do very well on surprisingly little. (took me a looong heart wrenching time to twig that with dd - I know what you re going through believe me.)

I agree that speaking to nursery is a good idea - and maybe they can do some sessions on 'healthy eating' or similar. The purely by co-incidence you can put your own family on a healthy eating plan - and ask all your dc to help draw up a list of food that would be good to eat. Big posters with pictures etc.

Then while you all get on with eating the agreed food be utterly indifferent to whether she eats or not. I assume that you eat breakfast? And that she sees you eat it? If not, then it might help if she did.

At the same time make sure that she gets enough individual attention at other times - a bit of special mummy and daughter time on none food related subjects.

It is soo hard I know but the best thing you can do is relax about it. If she is bright, energetic etc then somewhere along the line she is eating the food to give her the energy to be so.
Good luck.

[BecauseImWorthIt]

milk into her - not a new herbal milk!

[BecauseImWorthIt]

Before my dc went to school, their reception teacher visited us at home. Don't know if your school does that, but this could be a good opportunity to get the school on board to help.

It gives you a chance to start afresh with her, by saying something along the lines that "when you go to school your teacher needs you to have had breakfast/something to eat. It's an important part of being a big girl, and will help you to do well at school." Then you could get your teacher to ask her when she visits what she will be having for breakfast.

If it comes from someone else rather than you, it might help.

I am in agreement though that they do need something before they go to school - and I think it's especially worrying that you say she doesn't even want to drink anything.

If she loves chocolate then how about chocolate milk? I know it's not ideal, but frankly it is a way of getting milk into herb - and probably actually less sugar than a cereal bar! (Although I don't know - I haven't checked)

[Issy]

Sorry, just seen your DD doesn't like smoothie. DD2 does like the yellow Innocent smoothie for kids. It's naturally very sweet and very smooth.

[Issy]

katepol

Much sympathy as I too have a tiny, skinny, bright, energetic and stubborn nearly 5yo with a less than enthusiastic attitude towards food. Like your DD, breakfast is particularly difficult. We've tried a number of things:

• Put the food (pancakes in slices, quarters of cheese on toasts, chunks of fruit) onto some plates in the middle of the table and then let the whole family take what they want. A sense of having to compete for the food with us and her big sister can sometimes encourage her to eat.
  
  
• Put on some music or a story tape during breakfast - it helps distract from the meal and lower the emotional temperature.
  
  
• If you drive to school, make a snack box for the car. DD2 will sneak food whilst she thinks we're busy driving. Don't comment on whether or not she's eaten the contents of the box.
  
  
• Start breakfast with a small glass of smoothie (DD2 likes the Innocent smoothie for kids). I think the drink helps to get her gastric juices flowing and kicks off a few hunger signals to the brain.
  
  
• Our most successful but hardest to achieve tactic has been studied indifference. Put the breakfast in front of her, remind her to eat it a few times, then when the meal is over (a timer is useful for this), chuck whatever hasn't been eaten in the bin with a barely perceptible shrug of the shoulders. I find it useful to maintain a conversation on a neutral subject with DH or DD1 whilst I do this, just to make it clear that I'm really not interested. Of course I'm screaming inside. You need to maintain this for several days before it shows any results.
  
  
• We reserve cereal for special treats as we try to get her to eat foods that have a higher calorific content. As a result she will almost always eat cereal (served with full fat milk) when allowed to do so!
  
  Don't panic too much. DD2 was diagnosed as 'mildly malnourished' when she first came home from Cambodia. The difference between mildly malnourished then and skinny now is very marked.