Five year old can't seem to function by herself (long)

[JinkxMonsoon]

DD is 5 and has just started Reception. September born. And she has always been incapable of occupying herself without constant adult 1-1 attention. She has never been the sort of child to occupy herself with a toy or activity alone, even as a toddler. Her toys are always untouched. When left to her own devices she lazes on the sofa in front of the TV/Netflix/YouTube/iPad. Those are her only interests, if you ask her.

It's not like she doesn't enjoy crafts, colouring, looking at books, practising writing, doing puzzles, etc. It's just that she won't do them without an adult sitting next to her CONSTANTLY. The feedback from preschool was "she's a wanderer" who wouldn't get stuck into anything during a free play set up (which is a lot of what preschool is about, isn't it?).

It got even worse for a bit when her baby brother arrived when she was 3.8. She'd call out things like "I'm on my own!" and "I need someone to look after me!" even if I was in the same room as her - if I wasn't sitting next to her she had a problem with it. I mainly put it down to jealousy and her generally being a quite difficult, stubborn, demanding personality (to put it in context, she's a horribly fussy eater and refused to toilet train until she was nearly 4) but, if that were true, she'd behave different away from home, surely?

I actually mentioned this problem to her class teacher when I met with her at the start of term. And sure enough, at parents' evening last week she brought it up as an issue. DD won't get stuck into anything during free play. She just wanders. The teacher has been wracking her brains for an "in" and did we have any suggestions? I could only say no, because it's always been such a constant struggle.

I put DD to the test on Friday after school. Brought a few toys down and set them on the dining table. She chose a mosaic puzzle (that she'd forgotten she had, obviously!) and I sat with her for a while until my 18mo needed my attention. She then demanded help. I gently said that I was going to stay in the next room, but kept talking to her, suggesting she do all the purple tiles next. Refused. Lip wobble. Then full on sobbing and snot. Same result every time. She'll react in the same way if I refuse to help her get dressed, or wipe her arse, or accompany her to the toilet even, sometimes. She seems so self piteous, like she views this as rejection. And although there's obviously a sibling rivalry element to that scenario, there's more to it for sure. It's more widespread than merely demanding my presence when I'm occupied with DS.

It's got to the point now where I'm totally exasperated with her. Her life must be so boring if all she does at school is wander around aimlessly, unable to choose an activity and join in. Likewise, she has a bedroom full of toys and puzzles and STUFF she could play with, and it's all wasted on her because she mostly chooses to do nothing but watch TV.

I'm really starting to get frustrated with it all and I'm questioning what on EARTH I've done wrong to make her this way. She's certainly been "spoiled" for adult attention, since I'm a SAHM, but there must be plenty of children of SAHMs that can function without an adult looming over them constantly.

What can I do? I'm afraid I'm not inclined to persevere with forcing her to do activities without me because, I'm sorry to say, her tears and histrionics just piss me off. Sad but true. I just can't stand it. I'm just so exhausted having two children who demand 100% of me 100% of the time. If DD could just sit and happily play by herself for half an hour, it would be miraculous. Is it too much to ask?

[AdrienneVole]

Not at all! I'm really sorry if that's how it came across - totally not my intention

Obviously reassurance is nice but if her teacher is mentioning it then it does sound as though it's an issue. Some amount of meandering is normal of course!

It really does sound to me as if there's too much screen time and nowhere near enough outdoor play: that's not a hanging offence, it probably describes about 90% of parents in this country - but I do think it would be helpful for you all to minimise the TV and get outside as much as possible.

It really sounded from your post as if you don't go to the park as you have two children? Sorry if I misread.

[Rainatnight]

I feel sorry for a five year old whose mum describes her as "quite difficult, stubborn, demanding personality". Did you label her that way very early?

[Kcollip]

Turn off the TV

[AdrienneVole]

Also, assuming school finishes at between 3-3:30, there's still around an hour of outside time. Most schools have a park quite close by. Plus weekends of course.

[SarahMacey44]

Every child is different but I suggest you cut the screen time and let her see more stuff outside. A trip to an art gallery or to the zoo will do good. Help her discover the beauty of the outdoors. It might be time consuming but letting her do "little excursions" will definitely help.

[SittingDrinkingTea]

Good grief, this isn't AIBU, the op wanted advice not a flaming. Who the hell wants to go to the park when it's five degrees, raining and dark?

[FabFiveFreddie]

It's plain as day to me that this is down to years of the TV being on all day and not having had to learn to occupy herself. It's been on tap. She's not had to learn to use her initiative. Not everyone is the same; some kids don't care about the TV being on, for others it's like honey to a bee.

It's hard work having two kids, but you have to do it else you'll be looking down the barrel of a 16yo with no interests or hobbies who only loafs about at home watching TV.

You seem to have a closed mind about this (and other stuff): nobody is judging you. It's not a criticism of you. You've asked for advice and some of it is to switch the screens off. Don't get defensive or make excuses. It will be hard, there will be whining and moping, you will be even more exhausted for a while. But what's the alternative?

[itunscrewstheotherway]

OP, my ds (age 6) is similar. It is improving gradually as he gets older - and as someone else on here said, him learning to read has helped loads.

For what it's worth, I used to barely have the TV on and go outside a lot, and he was still like it. I've found myself struggling with my energy levels over the last year or so, meaning I have the TV on for about an hour a day now and only go to the park for about 30 mins after school (and even then only if it's not too cold/wet) and it hasn't really changed anything. My 2-year-old ds - who has so far been brought up with much more TV and much less outdoor play than ds1 was - is far better at self-directed play than his brother. I think it's just how some children are.

Rain Some children are relatively difficult, stubborn and demanding, though. Are parents not supposed to notice these things about their children? I'm sure the OP thinks her daughter has a lot of positive attributes, but just doesn't see them as relevant to the issue at hand.

[strawberrypenguin]

I'd cut down the screen time and start with small bits. I.e. with getting dressed, you try to put your top on and I'll do your socks or similar.
Also try making her feel helpful, 'could you go and get x fir me from y room'

To be honest if I were you I would be getting a bit concerned and I think you do need strategies to help her. As a comparison my ds is about the same age as your dd, he gets himself dressed, takes himself to the toilet (I check he's wiped properly) plays with lego, drawing, paw patrol toys etc by himself. Yes he does ask a grown up to play and we do but if we say 'I'll play in a minute I need to do x first' he'll get on with it. I also have a younger child (6months) and he says he can't wait to play with him. So could you encourage the children to play with each other?

Would it help her to have a schedule- ds likes to know what's coming up. I.e. We'll do this then do x

[strawberrypenguin]

Oh and he does watch and have iPad time but it is limited

[GeorgeTheThird]

Turn the tv off. No background to tv, it's only on if you are actually watching it. Radio doesn't have the same effect, if you feel more comfortable with background noise.

Limit her screen time massively and you will see a change in her.

[Toomanywheeliebinsagain]

I say this in the gentlest way because you are clearly struggling and you have my sympathy but you need to take her to the park after school ( 30 mins with hot choc is an adventure) and as she is 5 can manage on her own while you look after toddler, enroll her in one or two after school activities (most will do a free / reduced trial for a session or two) and unless she screams blue murder while she is there, she goes) and limit screen time by always having an activity on stand by for her when she comes in. Our library often has drawing etc after school.Yes, it is tough with two children ( and I had a Velcro baby second time) but it will pass. The problem is unless you tackle it, your toddler will grow up and she will still be similar

[Ledkr]

The thing is, it's bloody tough with kids and that increases with each new arrival.
I had 3 under 5 in the dim and distant past
I had my girls a lot later and with a huge age gap and although easier my two really do demand my time as much as they can.
People are just suggesting things to help and it's making you cross as I think that you are probably at the end of your tether.
My dd loafs about for ages watching shopkins on you tube but I do think it affects her ability to do "real stuff" so I make attempts to reduce her use.
Getting out and about (not necessarily outdoors brrrrr) is good for both kids and you, on my days off I rarely come straight home from school but go to the library or park if it's nice, then when I get home it's tea and bath and less time to kill.
I would also say (at risk of a flaming) that my boys were much more likely to play on their own than my girls in fact dd 1 is nearly 15 and still can't sit with me watching a movie without yak yak yak and showing me constant selfies

[ineedaholidaynow]

How is she with managing with things like the toilet, getting changed for pe at school? If she can cope then she is obviously able to do it.

Would a reward chart help?

Is there anything she particularly likes to do at school, which you can try to get her to do at home?

DS is an only and luckily is quite happy to amuse himself. When he was your DD's age he would play school, board games etc with his teddies. Is this something you can encourage? Sometimes his favourite teddy would also join in when we were playing a board game as a family. There is nothing more galling than losing a game to a stuffed toy

[ineedaholidaynow]

Also how is she with carpet time and the more structured parts of school time? Can she sit still and concentrate?

Instead of some of the TV/iPad time could she sit quietly on her own listening to an audio book? Again my DS loved them, and it would mean you could get on with other things.

[SisterViktorine]

To be blunt, I think you are facilitating this behaviour from your DD because you are not prepared to ride a tantrum.

Of course she will control your time and attention given the choice. And you are giving her the choice because as soon as she throws a wobbly you give in.

You say you would really like her to play by herself for an hour. So you need to say 'Ok, DD go find something to do. I'm busy at the moment, I'll play with you later'.

If she's always had free access to TV/ tablet she will really lack play skills. You need to give her time to learn these as they are the foundations of learning- that is why the teacher is raising it with you.

However, as you are clearly defensive and will not be willing to upset your DD by changing the dynamic at home, I'm not sure why you are asking really!

[TheFlounder]

Sister I completely agree.

It's going to be a process of DD getting bored, asking for you to entertain her and stropping when you don't. You need to break to cycle. I do sympathise, it's easier said than done to ride out a tantrum.

[JinkxMonsoon]

holiday - She's totally fine with getting changed for PE and toileting at school (well she's a nightmare for drinking and probably manages one tiny wee all day, but that's another issue) so it's definitely a case of won't rather than can't at home. Partly a control thing and partly needing the reassurance that she can still be "babied" by me, perhaps?

The teacher specifically mentioned that she enjoys carpet time and joins in (she had all the Jolly Phonics actions down before starting school thanks to, yes, YouTube). I do suspect that she prefers structured school activities to free play.

It really sounded from your post as if you don't go to the park as you have two children

I said I didn't go to the park over the summer holidays because I found it especially difficult with a barely walking baby. We did, however, go to the local farm park every week which has farm animals, outside play equipment, indoor soft play, a changing programme of themed activities and a reptile house. It's just the local park which was a particular thing I couldn't face doing ^last August*. That's all. It will be marginally less torturous now that DS is older (please note sarcasm). DD actually went to said park on Saturday with DH while I was ill at home and DS napped. So maybe we can put "doesn't go to the park" to bed as the source of all my problems. It really isn't.

[AdrienneVole]

Okay, but it does sound as if some more outdoor play would be beneficial - that's not intended to berate you, at all. All the best.

[Backingvocals]

Youve had some weird responses OP! I can see lots of posters trying to make this into a "doesnt go to the park and watches tv" thing - there will be questions about obesity lurking in there too!

However, to answer your original post this all doesnt sound quite right. Assuming she is NT, there is something happening thats creating this dynamic. Later posters rang a bell with me with the bit about riding out a tantrum. I suspect you might have to stiffen your resolve on this and ignore a million tantrums.

I have a friend who is so incredibly attentive to her 5yo that he is a nightmare. Because she cannot deal with the moaning and crying so she attends to everything he wants. She thinks he's so much more difficult than any other kid but he's not. It's actually that it stresses her so much when he starts whining that she gives in straight away.

So going to the park with a whiny kid and a toddler is a nightmare but you do actually have to ride it out. And yes the toddler needs the attention so the older kid has to have a tantrum. Well so be it. Ignore tantrums. Ignore knocking at the window to get attention. Ignore all of it. Its actually easier not to ignore because its all so irritating but you wont get the right outcome if every request for attention is met.

[JinkxMonsoon]

To be blunt, I think you are facilitating this behaviour from your DD because you are not prepared to ride a tantrum.

Ha! Yes. Guilty as charged. Like I said before, she's always been difficult and has turned all sorts of things into major long term psychological battles, primarily eating and toileting (should also mention at this point that she has many good qualities that aren't necessarily relevant to this discussion ) and yes, I'm not afraid to admit that I don't want her to have a tantrum because, equally, I don't want to be losing my shit of an evening with everyone screaming and crying.

I don't deal with her tantrums well. Especially when they're over stupid minor things and she ends up sobbing for Daddy (because Mummy is being mean) who won't be home for another two fucking hours, etc. She has serious tantrum stamina when she really puts her mind to it. So yes, I avoid triggering major tantrums at all costs because I have the foresight to know how it ends and it ain't pretty. So I'm not going to apologise for avoiding a serious row because it's unpleasant for everyone and not good for my mental health. I'd rather explore gentler and nicer ways of encouraging independent play than screaming and shouting.

And please no one jump on this statement as proof of my "weak parenting" and "lack of boundaries" She is, in the main, a very well behaved kid and the teacher commented on how good she is at following school rules and routines. She earned a "good behaviour" award last week. She's on the School Council. In Reception!

[Backingvocals]

That's at the heart of it then Jinkx. I can understand looking for a gentler solution to a tantrum but it's got you here which is not where you want to be.

Would it be an idea to start a new thread about the tantrums and tactics oh riding them out?. Because I think that's the issue you need to tackle first.

[Backingvocals]

Btw I can see why screaming and shouting happens around eating and potty training because you have to engage on some level with those things. But playing? You dont have to engage. Ignore or pretend to ignore even when you are boiling inside.

[lapetitesiren]

I've often observed parents making themselves so much part of a game that there is no game once they have removed themselves. Try to facilitate her playing alone when you are with her rather than actually joining in. (this is hard to explain). For example get toys talking to each other" hello Lego man, I'm the playmobile dog, shall we make some popcorn?" "oh I'm going to sit on the chair now" etc. It shows her how to play a game and you gradually let her take it over and carry on. Once her imagination is immersed she is more likely to continue to play. Also she may need to be near you and involved in what you are doing. For example put play kitchen in or very close to kitchen so she can cook alongside you . Or just let her help with tasks together ( if you chop veg she is the one who puts the peeling in a bowl ready to put in compost etc). Bring a toy next to where you are doing things with the baby so she doesn't feel alone. ( sometimes I put the older child to play in the playpen so the toddler can't break everything but she is close to you and them. Not many children would accept a closed door on the garden - can you use a stair gate to stop the toddler escaping. They often just need to feel next to you to be able to get on but you need to reduce the interaction of the play so she develops skills and confidence to amuse herself. Sorry about the ramble!

[JinkxMonsoon]

Youve had some weird responses OP! I can see lots of posters trying to make this into a "doesnt go to the park and watches tv" thing - there will be questions about obesity lurking in there too

Thanks. And ha! I've been fully expecting to have posters asking for DD's BMI For the record, she is not remotely obese although it's a particular worry of mine due to her crappy, limited diet. Thankfully, she eats so very little it balances out the fact she exists on processed crap and sugar.

(Sarcasm again).

You are correct in that she's simply used to constant adult attention. Up until fairly recently I hadn't considered that to be a particularly bad thing. But the fact she isn't very adaptable to being without adult attention is the thing I need to train out of her. For all I know, I just need to give it time. She's only been at school full time for two months, and prior to that only did 9 hours a week at preschool.