School and poo withholding - wondering about SEN

[longestlurkerever]

I've posted a few times before about difficulties with my dd's behaviour and poo withholding but only recently have I begun to wonder if there's a connection and I'd be grateful for any thoughts or experiences.

My dd1 (4, Aug birthday) started school in September.she also has a new sibling born in June. She likes school and is making friends and learning a lot but she's been anxious and withdrawn when I collect her. She's not wanted to do her normal activities and has been very clingy towards me.

It could just be a normal reaction to school starting and a new sibling but I have had feedback from school that she's "a nightmare " over carpet time and following instructions and certainly I find discipline a real challenge. She's not aggressive or disruptive so we don't have issues around big things like hitting or damaging things but she doesn't follow instructions about things like "put your shoes on, don't open that cupboard, get down from there". It's constant and exhausting. and she will interrupt constantly even when told not to. She doesn't really respond to being told off or threats. I generally have to rely on her good nature to do the right thing rather than be able to make her. It's worse when she's tired but it's been almost constantly like this since she started school. Over the holiday her behaviour has been much improved except for three days when she had slightly later bedtimes.

The poo issue is that she withholds her poo till she's constipated and loses the ability to recognise when she needs to go. She's on laxatives at the moment and I'm hopeful we can get her back on track as we had this issue when she started pre school too and eventually, after a lot of hard work and rewards, cracked it.

I've recently noticed that she has the same vacant expression and distraction techniques when I'm trying to get her to poo as when I'm trying to tell her off or get her concentrate on writing or reading.

The Dr agrees the withholding is anxiety related. What I'm not sure about is if her anxiety is a normal response to a Summer born child starting school and adjusting to a new sibling or if there's something underlying making school particularly stressful for her. She's always been fine (almost exceptionally happy and confident) in a range of childcare settings but both pre school and school have been night adjustments because of their expectations about listening and conformity.

I posted on the special needs board about adhd as I'd read there was a link with constipation and apparently it can present differently in girls as inattention rather than hyperactivity (though she can be hyperactive when tired and talks incessantly) but the two replies I got suggested asd instead.

There's family history of both adhd and asd but I don't recognise her as having asd traits. She adores imaginative play and isn't fazed by stimulus. It's more concentration and authority that seem to unsettle her.

I don't know what to do. I'm fully aware she might just be behaving badly and the responsibility rests with me for getting her to listen at school, but I don't want to let her down if there is something I should be exploring.

I need to talk to school about the constipation and accidents anyway, and they're always trying to talk to me about her listening but in a frustratingly round about way and always in front of dd so I'm wondering about asking their opinion about adhd or similar but they've previously been quite patronising about my parenting responsibility and quite dismissive about my concerns over her mental wellbeing and anxiety so I don't really know how best to approach it. The talk about the toileting is urgent so I may need to separate the two.

Sorry if this is confusing. Happy to answer any questions

[Eminado]

Good luck Longest I really hope it goes well.

[gandalf456]

My daughter had this at the same age. I wish I'd known how common it was back then as I was so worried. Thankfully, it did resolve itself and it did coincide with a new baby and new school, too. So, yes, definitely anxiety related. My advice re the pooing would be to relax totally over it because it will be OK. It is very hard when you get people's comments, though - especially if you're struggling with behaviour, too.

Interestingly, my DD has problems with attention but never enough to be massively disruptive at school (she is 11). The main issue is school work and home work, which she gets majorly stressed over and this causes huge problems at home. We've had a couple of assessments but she's never been bad enough to warrant massive intervention and so we were discharged.

It might not be a clinical problem but simply something she finds difficult. I find professionals (rightly so) are often reluctant to diagnose but it might be helpful to partner up with the school and see how you can work together. i don't think it's helpful for them to say 'she's a nightmare' if those are the words they used because it will affect your confidence as a parent even more.

This is NOT your fault so you need to approach it that way and find a strategy that works. I find it very hit and miss with my DD (but not DS, aged 7, who responds to text book stuff, which is why I know it's not being an inadequate parent) and it often takes ages for her to pass through each phase and I often end up going back to square one even when I think something's worked. I think some children are just easier to parent than others.

[longestlurkerever]

Many thanks Gandalf. The teaching assistant did use the words "she's a nightmare" which I was upset about. I think the teacher would have been more tactful, though at parents evening she did say "we were just talking about dd's stubborn personality" to the TA, to which I did think"steady on", esp when the TA rolled her eyes and said "I'll say". She's a bit battery but wasn't really joking

[Eminado]

Wow that is really rude!! I would mention that today but i am pregnant and probAbly a bit sensitive

[gandalf456]

Without mincing my words, she sounds a bitch. You'll find that, with some teachers and TAs, neither you nor your children will gel with them and that'll bring out the worst in them. So, it probably isn't all your DD's fault. I hope the meeting goes well. If you approach it in a problem solving way, it'll be fine. You are not in court up on a charge. If you find the teacher defensive and you get nowhere, you can always go to the Head or take it further, if necessary. But, chances are, they'll want to find a solution as much as you.

[Smudge588]

I don't know about the other stuff but my DS withheld his poos at school in reception. It also coincided with a new baby too. It's difficult to solve because once it's a habit it becomes hard for them to poo properly and once the stool is very compact, watery poo leaks round the sides and causes an 'accident'. With my DS he became really embarrassed by the accidents so withheld even more and it became a vicious circle. Best way we found was to play it down, increase the fibre in his diet and it passed.

[longestlurkerever]

Thanks all, it went well. They were reassuring about how content she seems at school, friendships etc, and say her behaviour us improving. Sen are not on their radar for her and they think she's very intelligent but they weren't dismissive and will mention to SENCO.

Best of all they said all the right things about the poo issue and I'm confident they'll handle things professionally and discreetly. Such a breath of fresh air after nursery's poor handling of the same issue.

So I'm no further forward with the behaviour stuff but am feeling reassured about her future and at least I can bear it in mind. That dh seems to have got through life with adhd is reassuring in itself, as the more he has read in the last few days the more he thinks he does still have traits.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to post and I'll update if anything else happens.

[Kleinzeit]

Glad it went well

[tobysmum77]

In terms of the behaviour it sounds to me like she knows what is expected but doesn't like the TA and enjoys winding her up. At the next parents evening I would be requesting an appointment with just the teacher. TAs don't normally go do they....?

My dd sounds similar in some ways. She's a bit like me tbh doesn't like being told what to do. Of course she has to learn to conform and fit it with society but in some ways it is a strength imo. There will be occasions in the future when we will be delighted our dds aren't easily led and malleable.

[Eminado]

So pleased it went well.