4 month old and controlled crying/self soothe

[emmak8383]

I call it controlled crying but what we are just trying to do is help our daughter to self soothe. Our daughter is breastfed and has always gone to sleep on the boob. Because of this she is unable to self soothe when she wakes in the night. I am still feeding her during the night but sometimes she has woken an hour later after being fed and we have had to go in to her to get her back to sleep as she obviously doesn't know how to do so herself.
So what we have started now is to soothe her by not picking her up. We rub her belly and shush her. We leave her for a minute or two and then we go back and try again with the belly rub and shushing. Sometimes we do pick her up just in case she needs a burp (even though she has already been burped) and then put her back down to try again.
Let me make it clear that we are not just letting her cry it out till she stops. We are trying to soothe her without picking her up so she doesn't rely on it.
We are just after some thoughts about whether this is too early. A lot of information that we have read says controlled crying should not be done before 6 months or 9 months old.

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

CoteDAzur there are many parenting styles, it sounds like your friend chose a method that she was not suited to.

However you seem to give the impression that chidren who are raised in a AP type family are clingy and unabe to socialise.

One of the reasons that many of us go down the AP route is to increase their ultimate independance. we feel that nurturing a child's self esteem is a way to ensure a secure individual who has a great deal of respect for themselves and others.
It can be a tough route especially in the early years, young children do want to be close to their parents.
You friend decided it was too much for her, fair enough but if she had stuck at it she would have reaped rewards.

I have living proof as my oldest is now pretty much an adult himself, and far from "making a rod for my own back" I see an emotionally healthy and very secure young man who has a great deal of respect for himself and others.
Every day I reap the rewards of those early years- my teenagers are a joy to parent.

And yes they slept with us in the family bed for several years.

[Rooners]

Oh believe me...I have certainly got to the point of saying 'NO MORE!' in certain areas of parenting, and unsurprisingly the children were able to cope with that at that stage.

The thing is I prefer to wait till they are old enough a) to have real confidence in the fact I am there for them, b) to understand that they have needs that can sometimes wait, and c) to understand that I have needs that sometimes cannot wait.

I also want them to be able to talk and tell me in some way what the matter is before I take it upon myself to start ignoring their only means of communicating discomfort (physical or emotional).

This isn't usually possible by 4 months. I think that's my thinking really.

Anyway...thankyou for a peaceable and interesting discussion!

[Rooners]

Two more small points...I'm talking about the bits I got right (imo) not the other bits where I fucked up. There were/are plenty of those...

also I didn't/don't follow a method, whether AP or otherwise. That way I can individualise what we do to the baby and myself. And have nothing to blame if it all goes tits up!

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

I agree Rooners- I didn't follow a particular style- just parented from the heart- my style is a bit pick n' mix really but AP is the closest I can come to describing it.
I am also quite a strict parent- I have very high expectations of my children's behaviour, and yet I have never punished my children- ever.

What's more these days I wouldn't have any reason to punish- even if I did!

[CoteDAzur]

Rooners - I understand where you are coming from and it makes sense. Where we differ is (1) I'd die if I never got anything but broken sleep over years, and (2) I don't think literally 1-2 nights of not getting what's she wants (milk) damages a baby's psychology, especially when loving parents are there to comfort her.

Each family should do what they are comfortable with. The only thing that makes me see red is being judged as horrible parents because we sleep-trained. Comments like the below à la "they sleep through because they give up on the parent ever being there for them" make me positively stabby. There seems to be a culture of martyrdom (not talking about you here, as you don't seem to be suffering ) and expectation that parents should grit their teeth and wait while baby takes his sweet time sleeping through the night, sometimes for years. Well, we didn't do that and can't be happier about that choice - happy well-rested children, happy well-rested parents

[CoteDAzur]

Atthestroke - I didn't generalise at all but spoke about the one family where I know AP was practiced (and abandoned).

[HoratiaDrelincourt]

Cote I think continually going to comfort them doesn't count as CC/CIO. In most posters' minds those methods require ignoring the child completely for a set period, which is rather harder to defend.

[CoteDAzur]

Not continuously, but going in to comfort often enough that I can't call it "ignoring completely". CC, for sure, like the OP - leaving her for a minute or two, as OP said.

I can't see why this sort of thing would be hard to defend, nor why it needs to be defended. Have none of you taken a shower and couldn't go to comfort your baby while he was crying for a few minutes? I don't think your baby was traumatised and his psychology damaged by that incident, especially if you are an attentive, loving parent overall.

[HoratiaDrelincourt]

I understood your earlier post to mean "going to them when they cry, but not necessarily giving them what they ask for".

I am very crunchy, though

[CoteDAzur]

Yes, we did go to them when they cried. Well, DH did, because I was still breastfeeding and of course we couldn't taunt baby with milk smell oh, it was heaven

[HoratiaDrelincourt]

But CC is saying "baby is crying - I shall set the timer for five minutes and if he is still crying after that then I shall go".

[CoteDAzur]

No, there is no set doctrine to which one must adhere.

Baby cried. DH went, did whatever to calm her down. Then put her down and left. DD started crying again. DH waited for a bit, then went in. Calmed her down, then left. Et cetera until baby sleeps while I slept through it all.

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

CoteDAzur you wouln't die if you existed on "broken Sleep"- even for years.
Polypahasic sleep is common in many cultures, as indeed was here too before the advent of electric lighting.
So no you would not die.

[Wherediparkmybroom]

I'm with you cote, both boys had a cot in the bedroom, I'm more than happy for the baby to come in after the morning feed(about 5ish) but he sleeps in his bed. He is 7 mo.
I did the same with my seven yo and he is a happy, independant child that goes to bed and wouldn't dream of getting out of it except for the toilet, the only reason he comes to our room at night is if he is sick.
I have been told I'm unreasonable about bedtimes a lot over the years!

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

Our family bed has always been a big welcoming place.
Toddlers and children have always been welcome for any reason, whether it's because they have had a bad dream, feel unwell, are cold or just need a cuddle.
THese are all valid reasons to me.
I too have always had strict bedtimes, but less strict about where everyone sleeps.

[Wherediparkmybroom]

I've noticed that people get funny about bedtimes, the baby goes down a 7, and the eldest at 7.45. But I've seen school children that look so tired starting the day and these are the people being sniffy about a routine!

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

What do you mean "funny about bedtimes"?

Sleep is important to everyone.

[Wherediparkmybroom]

One woman was saying that they spent quality time with their children in the evening, this little girl was six! She went on to say that they didn't eat until 8.30 and she just carried them up when she went to bed. Same woman was horrified when ds I admitted to getting all in bed by half seven at the time and lectured us on " family time".

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

But those of us who don't use crying methods or are relaxed about sleeping arrangements are not advocating that children stay up late.

I value early nights, but simply allow my children to fall asleep using gentle methods- at an early time!!

[Wherediparkmybroom]

I hate to hear them cry, but I think some people confuse a little whinge, easily fixed with a quick tuck in or dummy, and crying especially past the 6m mark.

[lanbro]

All babies are different. My eldest always fell asleep on the boob and we sleep trained at 9 months. My youngest at 4mo will not be rocked at all or fall asleep on the boob. When she is tired I just put her down awake and she takes herself off to sleep, trying to make her sleep makes her more upset! 4 mo is very young and I think you just have to go with the flow. My eldest 22mo had a bad night the other night, cried whenever I left the room so I just slept in her bed with her. No problems since so not making bad habits, just doing what is necessary so we all get some sleep!

[atthestrokeoftwelve]

I cab assure you I am not confused at all. When my babies cry I comfort them.
I can't comment on the dummy- not something I used.

[Wherediparkmybroom]

Mine holds a dummy he runs it along the bars for a couple of mins quite often he will lose it about 11 o clock I just put it back in his hand and he's back asleep. But I have had to tell my mum a couple of times not to get him out of the cot because he will then not go back! Real crying is different generally food needed he occasionally fancys a snack about 3.

[Wherediparkmybroom]

Snack nights I'm just resigned to being kicked in ribs for a couple of hours, then getting up early....

[Rooners]

'I hate to hear them cry, but I think some people confuse a little whinge, easily fixed with a quick tuck in or dummy, and crying especially past the 6m mark.'

The thing I don't get is that they always DO have a reason for crying and often it isn't 'just for a cuddle' or 'out of habit' - I reason this because my current baby cries a lot.

Awake or asleep, he has cried a lot since he was born. It's been awful. My last baby before this one, didn't. He cried literally twice in his first six months of life. I mean literally. He would sleep easily in the day, wherever I put him (often a cot in the kitchen or even his lay-back high chair) and woke making little sounds and I would go to him and pick him up for a feed.

He was great. This one is great too but far more unhappy. I don't treat him any differently. I couldn't understand the awful crying and kept asking what the problem could be and was fobbed off with 'babies cry, often for no reason' - bolleaux.

So some nights, getting back to the point, he will not cry much at all. Other nights he will have a proper hard time of it. I assume something physical is going on - getting used to solids and growing teeth and having wind and all sorts of things.

It's not just for the hell of it. I know that if he genuinely can't sleep, it isn't because he doesn't want to. He's perfectly capable of sleeping through if nothing is preventing it.

So I can't understand why people assume babies aren't in need of something, or feeling pain of some sort, when they cry. It's really illogical. Mine does his best and sleeps whenever he can - really well - but when he can't, I would never assume he was just playing up or something.