Small boys, rough play and being kept in at playtime...

[Pantone363]

Ok I want honest opinions (OP you are a twat and in the wrong are fine ).

I had a phone call after school today from DS teacher regarding an incident yesterday.

DS and some other children were playing tag (although more likely the grab each others coats swinging them round kind of tag). Some girls were playing too. DS caught one girl and pushed/pulled her to the ground (there's no evidence today she wasn't playing along doing the same thing to the boys). The girl then says that DS and 3 other boys kicked her whilst she was on the floor. DS admits pulling her to the ground but says he didn't kick her.

All 4 boys have lost their lunchtimes today and tomorrow and then breaktime for the next two days.

I have a few problems with this

1. She was playing along fine, if it was my DD I'd be telling her not to play tag with the boys if she can't suck it up if they get a bit rough.
   

1. DS swears blind he didn't kick her
   

1. Nobody else saw the kicking, theres no evidence other than this girls report to her mother.
   

1. Where were the playground staff?
   

1. I can't see that keeping 4 boisterous 5 yr old boys in all day is going to help anyone.
   

I've made DS write the girl a card saying sorry for pulling her over.

Am I being a job for thinking this is poorly handled and just point the finger at the rough naughty boys?

[pictish]

rough not tough

[pictish]

And OP - you need to take off your mummy goggles.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

OP - Pictish is soooo right, you really should listen to her.

[plantsitter]

I agree with Pictish. But I also think that kids who like rough play - girls or boys- need to learn that if someone is getting hurt or has stopped enjoying it, they need to STOP what they are doing and check that person is OK. It's not good enough to say the hurt kid shouldn't play if they can't take it.

Even wrestling has strict rules. For that reason.

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

The thing is OP, that in your first message you said you were willing to be told if you were not right about this...you're not though. You definitely have Mummy Goggles on as Pictish says.

Your DS is not rough...but he likes rough play. Same thing. I personally don't doubt what you say is true...I am sure if he says he never kicked her then he didn't,,,but as someone else said, neither did he do anything to stop it happening. And before anyone says 5 year old's aren't empathetic...yes they are when taught it.

[desertgirl]

Bashful bunny, that is exactly what I have been trying to say.

They were all playing a banned game; they should all be punished. Not just the ones who didn't get hurt (this time).

Although I have no reason to think either child was lying, 5 year old perceptions of the world are not entirely reliable ('he hit me' can mean just that, or it can mean 'I stumbled against his arm', as you as an adult know if you saw the action in question). If there were other reasons to think the little girl was objectively as well as subjectively correct, fair enough. You couldn't run any kind of fair system on the basis that anyone making an accusation was automatically correct, any more than you could on the basis that everyone who said they didn't do something must be telling the truth.

And I do think 'rough' play can be fun - we just only do it with adults (or occasionally teenage cousins). For example, DD (5) is currently insisting every single evening that I lie face down, so she can climb on top of me, at which point I have to wonder what this heavy weight is, and try very [apparently] hard to throw or shake it off, until I succeed and discover to my amazement that it is DD. Not a great game for the school playground (and she wouldn't try it there!) but she clearly loves it, and (like OP, I think) I believe some of that kind of activity is physically good for them (DS has poor gross motor skills and I would do anything that got him active and using his body) and it doesn't make us 'rough'. they just have to learn the rules, which include not hurting people, and include not playing such games in the school playground.

[RubyOnRails]

Yeah but not all kids are the same....I've watched my son getting hit three times on different play dates....he never hits back. As a mother it's heartbreaking....my son is a boisterous but gentle child and your horseplay may be my manhandling.

[pictish]

Best to err on the side of caution I say, rather than defend your child's right to maul other kids who are daft enough to want to play with him.

[Pantone363]

In the interests of honesty and admitting when I am wrong.

DS came to me tonight and admitted to lying and that he had been involved with the kicking . He was most upset that the police were going to take him away. Instead he's lost his iPad and PC usage for two weeks.

I'm utterly sick that he would ever kick someone when they were on the ground, or kick someone full stop!

No explanation for why he did it, just sobbing.

[5madthings]

Its good that he has told the truth tho :)

This is the problem with rough olayy, yes they enjoy it but they get carried away, that's why its worjt being really strict about it and clamping down. They dotn even mean to do to half the time and an situation they egg each other on etc. Obviously its not OK, but I think its really good he has owned up.

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

Well don't cry. It's not the end of the world. It's not nice no...but you should perhaps look to who he's playing with at school and also look at lessening the rough games at home. 5 year olds aren't noted for their restraint. If you were talking about an 8 year old you should be worried but 5 is small still.

At least he did the card. I would comfort him re the police and explain that they wont be coming.

[pictish]

Well at the very least he deserves credit for being honest.

[racmun]

I can see op point. Her son and others were playing a game- their game and they are all happy- falling over is part of the game.

The girl joins in doesn't like the game and then complains!
(Assuming she wasn't kicked) she shouldn't have joined in in the first place.

I would speak to the teacher re the kicking incident as I would not want my son punished for something he didn't do!!

[5madthings]

racmum the point is rough play is NOT allowed at school and kicking is never OK.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

He did do it though, racmum.

Well done, op. It is hard to imagine our dc doing something wrong, far better to believe that 'other' kids did it!

I think you'd do well instigate some rules for your ds now - along the lines that Morebeta said earlier - particularly no pulling others' clothes or dragging them to the ground.

There are plenty of ways that kids can be physical and expend their energy without rough play that hurts/risks hurting others.

[YoniSingWhenYoureWinning]

OP I admire your admitting you made a mistake. Five year olds are inexplicable sometimes.

BashfulBunny

"Wow. So many agendas on this thread!

In the rational world it sounds more like this:
Children were playing push-tag (silly and too rough, but they were)
One child was pushed too roughly and probably got kicked accidentally while on the ground as the others didn't stop playing."

"Listening to only the girl's side is just as wrong as listening to only the boy's. Being on the receiving end of an untrue accusation can be just as harmful (unfairly tarred as a bully, feeling like people always think you are to blame etc), as being on the receiving end of being bullied."

I hope you feel like a dickhead now.

[desertgirl]

Sorry - not BB but would still be cautious about believing one child over others in the absence of other reasons (which I imagine the school will have had - it's the 'demeanour of the witness' usually).

It's why I would never talk to a teacher about something one of the kids had said without making it clear I was not assuming it was what really happened. Would you?

OP so sorry you had to hear this; it's good both that he's so upset about it (will help the message get in) and that he told the truth. You might want to try to remember how he was acting when he told you he didn't do it - actively lying can be quite a difficult thing to learn, it can sneak out in the body language and useful for you to learn his signals if you can.

[pictish]

And for goodness sake, rethink your selfish attitude about your son's rough playing.
This is what happens...they inevitably get carried away and other kids get hurt and/or humiliated.
Five year old boys do not have the self regulation to rough play nicely in a school setting, no matter how much you try to convince us it's all fine.
I know this because I have three ordinary children, and have had to attend three different ordinary schools through moving house, and it is the same wherever you go...there is always a handful of rough kids whose parents think it is their god given right to effectively assault ours!
And that is why we all wish you would piss off and find another school to go to!

We have two in our nursery class atm. One of them is enormous, and just crashes through the wee ones in the name of play. He drove into my daughter on his scooter the other week there, knocked her over and scared the shit out of her, as well as her skinning her elbow. There were big tears.

I know his mum well, she is really super nice and a good laugh, but she doesn't get it either. She sees his behaviour as acceptable and natural, and is convinced that when the nursery teacher tries to discipline him, she is 'singling him out' and 'overreacting'.
The rest of us mums like her, but if she took her son elsewhere, no one would miss him one bit.

I totally commend your honesty and that of your son. Now read the thread again and take note.

[brettgirl2]

I think it is important to not label girls as 'victims'. Dd (4) behaves differently with boys to girls, then when they start being boisterous (which is how she was behaving ) comes to me crying. She isn't weak, or a victim but learning social rules. I do try to talk to her about it but it doesn't always go in

A couple of times I've had mortified mothers running over to me to find out what happened and the answer really is nothing.

[BashfulBunny]

yoni not at all.

Credit to OP for posting what her son said, but in response to what was originally posted, I stand by my comments which I still think are more rational than those implying this is the beginning of her DS becoming an abuser and the girl being scared to report abuse in future.

In the light of her latest post, yes her DS should and had been punished.

Moral is more that more information is important when dealing with issues.

Your reply -possibly tongue in cheek- simply reads like someone who puts the verbal boot in rather than physical.

[KeepCoolCalmAndCollected]

BashfulBunny - Excellent thread.

Pictish - I think OP gets it now. I can almost smell the smoke coming off your computer for heavens sake!!

In my view after hours and hours of observation on playgrounds, particularly after school when children have had a long day of concentration etc., a lot of them like to burn off steam and sometimes this can be in the form of what I term 'super-hero' play. From what I have seen this invariably ends up with someone ending up getting hurt. A lot of the time the big for their age children can take a lot of the 'pummelling' and are not so affected by it, however when a 'smaller' child ends up getting hurt (and this isn't necessarily intentional but due to the sheer size and strength of the bigger child), all hell will then ensue!

So long-winded, but my view is categorically no rough stuff, simply because someone always ends up getting hurt.

Bringing up children is a learning curb for each and every one of us, we all have our burdens to bear whether we have big or small children, but we hopefully get there in the end.

Good luck OP.

[HighInterestRat]

Agree KeepCool - my son is large and boisterous and can give as good as he gets with regards to rougher play but a smaller, shy child would be upset so it's best if these games are calmed down immediately when they start really. Again, children get overexcited when playing and school staff can't be everywhere so things like this will happen sometimes. The school has dealt with it, you as a parent are dealing with it and that's the end of the matter. He's five not fifteen.

[pictish]

No smoke keepcool - only a little steam.

And I'm glad she gets it now, because yesterday she really didn't.

[NeoMaxiZoomDweebie]

Blackpool have you read the WHOLE thread? It's moved on a lot since the OP posted her original message