Holy Thursday Horror Story (very long)

[Caththerese1973]

HI
I'm not a big church-goer, as a rule, but recently I have reverted to my Catholic roots for a variety of reasons....anyway, point being, my 3 y/o DD were actuallly BOUNCED out of church tonight because of dd's behaviour. I guess she is is not blame: I hardly ever take her, but thought that this service might be interesting for her, as it is at the big city cathedral, and involves some lovely music and ritual.
Everything was okay at first: the choir began, she ballet-danced in the aisles ad charmed everyone....then became completely unruly: was running around all over the place, shouting, demanding that she have a 'seat of her own'. Ran up to a grotto dedicated to the Virgin and opened gate, I intervened and picked her up and took her back to her seat, and as I did so, she grabbed at my top and exposed my bra to practically whole congretation!
About ten mins after this I took her into the lobby. A male parishioner emerged and closed the church doors, and let me know that my dd was 'spoiling the mass for 300 people'. I thought, well, okay, at least I can stand outside and hear the singing and liturgy, and go in for communion. But dd was VERY cross at being shut out of mass: it was like some sort of metaphor for excommunication - she kept shouting: 'I don't WANT to be left out in the dark! I want to go inside again! I PROMISE I"ll be quiet!' etc, etc.
Grumpy male parishioner re-emerged (by this time I had made a 'tent' for myself and dd under blanket, and was trying to soothe her) and demanded to know 'what was going on' and 'why can't you control your child?"
I sort of lost it at this point and said, excuse me, why can't you control yourself? This is a Catholic church and one would imagine children are welcome...
Mr Grumpy more or less intimated that I ought to leave the premises altogether. I find it hard to believe that a bit of toddler grizzling could permeate ancient stone walls and solid wooden door of church. There were some other parents outside with toddlers, and they couldn't believe the way I was being talked to. I suspect my fairly obvious single mum status may have had something to do with it.
Made myself loook additionally ridiculous by walking off into the night and shouting at grumpy man that I would 'write to local Catholic newspaper' about his fascist attitude. And then (cringe! cringe!) 'I said to him: 'by the way, my name is DOCTOR Maslen' (this last because I graduated with my PhD a few weeks ago....this is the first time I have ever invoked the Dr thing in such a pompous and ridiculous way, and I feel really embarrassed). I felt he was deeming me to be shabby and inferior, a kind of blow-in, probably because of my clothes and evident lack of husband. I may have been a trifle paranoid.But even if I was a heoin addict mum (which I sort of look like at the moment, being rather thin and poor-looking), surely such draconian attitudes are not in the spririt of Christianity?
Anyway, dd continued to wail dismally all the way back to car, clearly feeeling that she was responsible, so I thought stuff it, I'll go back and have communion at least. I was allowed back into church for two seconds in order to get communion.
It was so sad because in her own way dd was really enjoying ceremony. Yes, Holy Thursday is a very solemn mass, but dd was dancing to the music, pretending to say prayers, was really interested in choir and the old building.
I remember when I was at Catholic school as a kid you could hardly even hear the priest talk over the wailing and antics of bored toddlers. Things seem to have changed.
I suppose at bottom of my heart though is concern for dd's unruliness. She will NOT listen to what I say, will not be reasoned with. I've tried various sorts of discipline, even bottom smacking (which I've now dropped). I am a single mother (since dd was 2) and a fairly unconventional person myself, so I can't help but have a bit of a twinkle in my eye when she violates the rules and regulations. But she is becoming known as a 'problem child' among friends and family. Won't share toys, pushes and shoves younger kids (gets on well with older ones though), has tantrums all the time, demands attention, won't let me talk to other adults if she is in the room (Ie 'mummy stop TALKING!" ) Toilet training has become a big battle and recently, on Dr's advice, I have decided to simply put her in pants, not pressure her and let her have accidents so she realises that there's a need for her to learn. Lots of cleaning up for me, though, and I'm run off my feet with work right now.
Guess there is not much routine in our lives: I managed to get a good teaching job at local uni but it doesn't start until end of July, and until then I am on single mum benefit (ex doesn't pay regular child support ...tells me to 'get a job'. I would do, if it wasn't so pointless....if I worked in a laundromat or whatever I'd have dd in daycare constantly and wouldn't have time to write my course for my uni gig). We are so poor right now, and as young as she is, I think she really feels it.
We are also stuck in a shite flat, no-where much to play: I have so much reading to do that a lot of the time DD is forced to watch TV/DVDs/videos. In fact she has become sick of TV: turns it off and plays rather sad little games all by herself. Is particularly fond of playing 'Katy and Cristian' (my best friend Katy is a mum of two with hubbie and 'normal' life).
DD is the loveliest child you could ever meet, inherently, and I'm sure when she is older she will be a really sweet person. But right now she's in the throes of full-on toddler egotism and embarrassing scenes occur on a daily basis in shops etc.
People seem to think she's out of control. By my standards, she's not really, but perhaps my standards are rather low?
And by the way, I'm not a religious nut or anything. I have tried to impart the positive aspects of my own Catholic upbringing without dwelling on scary or silly stuff. It is important to me that she has some intimation of there being beauty and meaning in life beyond the obvious.
Suggestions from Mums of famously unruly (and un-toilet-trainable_ tots would be appreciated.

[Caththerese1973]

Sadly, silverbirch, Mums' churhc is miles away. But we do spend a fair of time at Mum's, so maybe I could have a sleepover withh dd one Sat and go to church with Mum next morning. I really would like dd to have the sense of community and reassurance from RC practice, although I also acknowledge that RC has its drawbacks. My personal feeling (this is very un-RC, in a way)that one can accept what seems reasonable and sensible in RC practice, and reject scary stuff like hellfire and damnation. I would never expose my child to that. I was menaced with the hell concept as a child at school (not a fiery hell, merely 'a place of darkness where there is no God and you are alone'....lovely stuff for nine year olds!) It had a terrible effect on me throughout childhood and adolesence...

[threebob]

My FIL was an Anglican Minister - he is also an arse who insists that ds stays at the table watching him take ages to serve himself, whilst not being able to touch his own food until grace has been said. He won't give ds dessert if he gets down from the table after the main course, even though my BIL gets up and goes outside for a smoke, and he has been known to get up and see how the sport on the TV is going (whilst his dessert is served).

Based on this performance I am never taking ds to a church service with this man unless it's one for children. He was very cross with ds for starting to sing Jingle Bells once Away in a Manger had finished at the local Church service.

I honestly think that some old people can't appreciate good behaviour when they see it - and they can't appreciate a parent who is trying to do their best.

Religious Tolerance is an oxymoron as far as I am concerned.