Sorcha... pronunciations?

[pinkytheshrinky]

I know that for the most part this name is pronounced Sor-kha but I met a nice older lady years ago who was a Sor-sha - I do really like this name and it is top of the list for my new dc. What do you think?

I do also have two other dds with Irish names who's spellings have been Anglicised so I do have form for this....

[pinkytheshrinky]

What about Charlotte - that is very popular name in uk and is a ch but a sha sound?

Not that unusual?

[pinkytheshrinky]

And really this 'it is disrespectful to the language' argument is not really relevant is it? Names (whether we like it or not) evolve all the time as language does too.

My other children's names have gone from traditional spellings to simpler ones over time and it seems that sorcha with the sha is not uncommon - lots of people here know one or have one in their family. FFS it is hilarious that people become indignant about it being a crime against the Irish Language.....

Dspite all the arguments I do thik that most people in the UK will look at that name and think it is pronounced Sor-sha - I prefer how it looks with the ch, the person I knew is with a ch and given that most people will decode it as this sound then I think it is entirely reasonable

Given the chav crimes against Irish names, I think I can blag it

[RitaMorgan]

Charlotte is a French name though isn't it? Like Charles is pronounced in French with a "Sh" too.

[pinkytheshrinky]

But my point is it is common in England and people know how to pronounce it - it matters not about where it came from it mattes that it is a standard used here and is recognisable

(and actually we spend half our time in France so that makes sense for us too!)

[RitaMorgan]

In practice, you can choose whatever pronounciation you like - I know a Sean pronounced Seen, the aforementioned Ice-la/Isla and have come across a Sian pronounced Cy-ann.

[pinkytheshrinky]

I think my interpretation makes sense even if it strictly speaking is not correct - Ice-la is ridiculous (i know people in glasshouses and all that...) but it sounds horrible and doesn't make sense.... and the real pronunciation is much nicer and more elegant

[RitaMorgan]

I guess they were going with I-sla like I-rene or I-van - it makes as much sense as I-la I suppose. Whether or not it is a nicer or more elegant pronounciation is a personal thing though, as you have found.

[pinkytheshrinky]

But the name is Island/Isle isn't it, hence the pronunciation. It is based on a word rather than being a name iykwim

[RitaMorgan]

But the point is, they like the name with the s - that's the name they've used, that's their child's name. Same as Sean's parents liked it as Seen. People might raise eyebrows or comment, but even if it is "wrong", if you like the pronunciation then you can use it.

[pinkytheshrinky]

Hmm not sure that is the same thing at all - it is based on a word a real word which is a thing: Island. I think with a name that already has multiple pronunciations and where there is precedence it is different. I wonder if the people who named their child that looked up the meaning?

I do not accept that this is the same thing at all.

[RitaMorgan]

It's exactly the same thing!

[HooverTheHamaBeads]

I worked with the most elegant and lovely lady called Sorcha, she was a Sor-sha.

[pinkytheshrinky]

We shall agree to disagree - or you are wrong as I call it in my warped world

Hoover I intend to give birth to (another) elegant and lovely lady and I think it is a fantastic name.

[Bunbaker]

DD has a Sorcha at school and it is pronounced Sorsha.

[mathanxiety]

Charlotte is a French name, and the CH is pronounced as it is done in France. So therefore you have scuppered your own argument wrt Sorcha by your example.

You could, by your reasoning here, call Charlotte 'CHarlotte', as in char lady, cha cha cha, etc.

'And really this 'it is disrespectful to the language' argument is not really relevant is it?'
It is relevant, really. You can't decide for yourself how to pronounce words in a language you know nothing about. That is not 'language evolving'. It is 'getting it wrong'. To do so despite knowing what the correct version is is to show a lack of interest in and respect for the language. Your DD is going to meet people whose language you have corrupted, people who have named their British DDs Sorcha who have taken care to get the pronunciation right just as many British people have named children Liam, Seán, Niamh, Siobhán over the years and got over themselves and pronounced the names as they should be pronounced. Insisting on pronouncing those names Lyam, Seen or See-an, Nyam or Nee-am, or See-ob-han would be ridiculous. It would be 'getting it wrong', not evolving any language.

Sorcha is based on a word, just as Isla is. It means bright. It is the opposite of dorcha (it even rhymes), which means, yes you've guessed it, dark. There are girls' names based on the same dichotomy -- Soireann and Doireann. Pronounced Sir-inn and Dir-inn (they rhyme too).

'Ice-la is ridiculous (i know people in glasshouses and all that...) but it sounds horrible and doesn't make sense.... and the real pronunciation is much nicer and more elegant' Everything you've just said here could equally be applied to Sorcha. "Sorsha is ridiculous... it sounds horrible and it doesn't make sense.... and the real pronunciation is much nicer and more elegant".

Colleen is a transliteration of the word cailín, meaning 'girl'. Another example of taking ignorance to a whole new level.

[pinkytheshrinky]

But there are so many so many Sorchas with a sha - we cannot all just be ignorants sods. Personally I cannot stand the name Colleen but I can see why it has evolved.

And lots of popular names are foreign - Catherine is greek isn't it? and it has been a very popular name for a long time - Charlotte may originally be a French name but again popular in England and everyone knows how to say it. English is made up of lots of different languages and variable pronunciations of the same letters.

So is Charles with a hard Ch sound wrong, should we all be say sharles? as it is French? Is it wrong or has it evolved to be easier to pronounce in English?

I do think the sha sound is much more common than the proper pronunciations in the UK.

[Superfly]

OP - you asked what people thought, you got their opinions. If you had every intention of using the Irish spelling and your own pronounciation why bother asking in the first place?

Either use the Irish spelling and the Irish pronounciation or make up the spelling then pronounce it the way you wish. Simple. My dc's have Irish names, I pronounce them correctly and spell them how they should otherwise why bother? I wanted names that reflected and respected their heritage, that included how they were spelled and how they were said.

[pinkytheshrinky]

Can i not ask without taking that advice? I wanted to know how many different pronunciations there were - i found three immediately just from baby books.

And lots of people here have said, yes I know a Sorcha said sorsha..... it has been pretty evenly split.

Changing a pronunciation is disrespecting Irish heritage (of which my children have some).

Is changing Charles to a hard CH sound disrespecting French heritage? or is that ok?

[pinkytheshrinky]

Apologies - I don't think changing a pronunciation is disrespecting Irish heritage

[SheCutOffTheirTails]

There are a lot of Irish people in the UK. And they will all know your daughter's name is mispronounced. I would never do that to a child - give them a name in a language I didn't speak, that I couldn't say, and then send her out into the world where lots of people would know.

If you don't care about authenticity and just want a made up name, why not just spell it Sorsha. That will be way easier for people to spell and pronounce.

[SheCutOffTheirTails]

Actually all the Sorchas who pronounce it Sorcha are ignorant. It's quite a chavvy spelling/pronunciation combo.

[SheCutOffTheirTails]

Pronounce it Sorsha, that should have said.

[YokoOhNo]

It's a Gaelic name. As I understand it, Irish Gaelic is usually pronounced "Sor-Kha", Scottish Gaelic, like a friend of mine, is usually pronounced "Sor-Sha".

[pinkytheshrinky]

My children do go to a Catholic school and there are lots of Irish parents there - I will just have to face their scorn

trying the chav argument is poor and weak and at best unconvincing - So is Sacha ok or not as that is Russian in origin? Not my cuppa for a name but I know a rather lovely Sacha who is a boy and rather posh and certainly not at all chavvy

But loads of really popular names are from other world languages... are all the parents of Charlottes and Charles French speakers and Catherines, Greek Speakers and Michael's, Hebrew speakers?

Changing Irish names to English pronunciations is contentious because of the way the English have treated the Irish and their language and culture. Bearing in mind as a language we have co-opted most things in and changed pronunciations, why should Irish be the exception to the rule?