Not to be arsed with fake Mummy friends anymore?

[Druzhok]

In the last 6 months, I've dropped my ante natal group (DS is nearly 5 and I still don't feel comfortable in their company) and a group of local-ish women I first met online.

I'm not boasting about this - in fact, I worry what kind of an anti social, unfriended outcast I've turned into and what effect it will have on my children's social standing - but I just can't DO it anymore. I can't be arsed with the inane chatter and fakery.

DS is starting school soon, so in a way I'm looking to that, but - pah - I just don't think I do it very well at all. I can't offer the commitment and plasticity required.

BTW, these are not terrible people: they have been very good to me at times (and vice versa). I just don't think we really like each other that much

Didn't know where to put this. Would appreciate other's POV, though, not least because no one else is talking to me anymore ...

[Booboobedoo]

Druzhok, I felt the same, and dropped my NCT group before they all turned one.

Thing is, I have come to accept my misanthropic tendencies, and am often to be found having a coffee on my own in the local child-friendly cafe reading my mag while DS steals toys plays with the other children.

I've made some nice mates at the local one o'clock club, but don't see them that often.

An old friend of mine told me that I am too all-or-nothing about friendships (in that I can't be arsed to put too much effort in unless I think we really click), and that she has different 'levels' of friends.

She's probably right, but I don't think I'm likely to change.

[Druzhok]

No, I agree: I can't really do the different levels of friends. Small talk is so painful for me.

[lovechoc]

och I stopped all that months and months ago. for the first 6 months postnatally everyone tried to gel but after that people drifted off their own seperate ways - which to me seems pretty normal as life starts to take shape again, you get your sleep and get into a routine of your own etc.

I haven't seen many of the mums I met at antenatal class since DS was about 18 months old! I've been busy getting on with my life and DS starts nursery next month anyway so he'll be making his own friends which is more relevant.

I do occasionally phone one or two of them up to see how they are all getting on but tbh, we all have our own lives now. It's not anything personal.

[mommmmyof2]

least your honest and yes i do no what you mean, I try keeping myself to myself as i feel people can be very fake and sometimes talk to you and then other times ignore you! And i was sort of involved in a conversation not so long a go and some women(and men) can be quite bitchy!

[Cortina]

A friend of mine talks about 'divisions' of friends, old and best, premier league and on a sliding scale.

I've noticed that some people need friends and a support network more than others.

It's odd the whole perceived school gate 'pecking order'. There is an incredibly elegant, impossibly wealthy Mother that a friend of mine nicknamed 'Jackie O'. Jackie O, actually seems very nice, the odd time I've seen her but others treat her with a reverential awe. Turns out this Jackie O, is an expert in a certain area that my friend needed help with, I suggested she email or meet up with 'Jackie' - we see her a lot around and about. My friend won't in case 'Jackie' thinks she is trying to suck up to her. There's seems to be an increasing crowd that are trying to woo Jackie, she gets asked to all the best gatherings I am told! It's interesting and very tribal behaviour. I assumed we'd left it behind at school but apparently not.

[lovechoc]

I also found the fakeness quite annoying at times - thankfully a few in my close circle of friends are expecting their first child so I'd rather socialise with them, as the conversation is more meaningful.

There were also a couple in the group that clashed and they didn't get on very well, which made it quite awkward when organising meet ups. I couldn't be bothered with the politics of it all.

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

I totally empathise with your OP Druzhok - I have similar issues - espicially as I moved out of London just before I had dc2 so I had to leave behind one set of Ante-natal group friends and I have never been able to replace them properly.

I do have a group of good aquaintainces but despite regular curry and wine nights and some chat in the playground I am yet to really fully 'click' with any of them. Prior to children I had a group of male and female and gay and straight friends, I find the entirely female world I appear to inhabit now rather stifling, there does not seem to be an easy answer to this aside from returning to work. But does anyone else find the gender imbalance an issue, I don't really feel comfortable making a beeline for the men in the playground nor do I think that would fill the gap.

My little fantasy for the last few months has been to start a book group in order to ensure conversation about something other than fundraising for the PTA and what size shoe little Jenny is in this week!

[carparkmum]

Sounds like you need to read a great new book coming out later this year - The Guilty Diary of a Prep School Phoney. This was written by a friend and I was lucky enough to be given a read prior to publication. Totally sums up the feelings mums have about one another. Really funny and I would advise all insecure mums to keep an eye out for it.

[Booboobedoo]

Bigmouthstrikesagain - several of my one o'clock club mates are SAHDs.

I was worried about looking a bit maneaterish and being judged by other women, but have now put that behind me and am having a much nicer time!

Like you, I found the sudden shift to predominately female company tough to take.

It's not that I don't like women, I just like a gender mix, I find it keeps things more relaxed.

I'm in London - don't know if that makes a difference.

[Cortina]

Carparkmum - love the title! I think the same 'groups' exist wherever you go. Agree about a gender mix making for more relaxed company. I really enjoy it when partners come on evenings out, we seem to laugh a whole lot more for some reason?

[Choconellie]

I can so relate to this thread. I was able to easily blend in with the appropriate 'mummy' groups along the way from antenatel to school days. The polite chatter is very tiresome after a while and can be difficult to break through into proper conversations.
Over the years some have dropped away and others have came along but to be honest there is only maybe one or two of these ladies that I can truly just be myself with and have a good time with.
I liked the post about not being just seen as X's mummy. On nights out when all that is spoken about are our children aren't the greatest of nights. But I suppose it has to start somewhere and that is what we have in common. But frankly if it doesn't move beyond that then its not a 'proper' friendship IMO.

[Druzhok]

Oh yes, I agree re the gender shift. I've never even really worked with women and when I have, I've found it a bit tricky.

There is another side to this: that, pre children, I relied on alcohol and quite a brash humour (and flirting) to get through social situations. Dh and I got married and I got pregnant with a year of meeting each other, so the shift was quite abrupt and possibly I've just never learned to socialise with people when sober . I no longer drink anything like I used to (which is generally A Good Thing) and I have realised that I can't swear/flirt my way out of an uncomfortable silence when I'm perched on another woman's sofa in the middle of the day.

In other words, it may not be Them

[TheMoonOnAStick]

I'm feeling quite at home on this thread. If only rl could be like this...It's so much more laid back. That's all I want from friends really. No pressure to perform, otherwise it all feels like just another thing to manage.

The 'predominantly female' comment rings bells with me too. There is always one, who probably with the best intentions, feels she must be the 'organiser' (ie boss everyone about) and keep driving the group along. That's all very well if you like that sort of momentum from your relationships, but I don't.

In retrospect I wish I had said no to more of it - and inevitably looked aloof.

[JohnPeelwasmyhero]

I think it take a long time to develop friendships, and that you need to have 1:1 relationships with individuals to develop friendships. Always meeting always in a group means that people do try not to speak out of turn, etc...

What I'm saying is maybe you need to give the friendships more time individually, which might be easier when all your DC go off to different schools and you don't have to meet up as much as a group? Also, does your DH get on with their DH's? COuld you go out / invite round individual couples?

Sadly, the whole "yummy mummy" groups will be the same at the school gates, if not even more difficult to penetrate if you do not like doing the small-talk thing

[Druzhok]

Yes, JohnPeel: the group dynamics have resulted in a bit of a one-size-fits-no-one democracy.

The intimacy of going for coffee with just one person terrifies me, though. It would be like asking a bloke on a date The possibilities of rejection and ridicule horrify me

[Conundrumish]

Blimey, how refreshing for you. I wish I had had the good sense to do the same - would have saved me a lot of engergy needlessly expended on certain people.

[Druzhok]

What a great post Thanks!

[fedupofnamechanging]

Relieved to have read this thread - thought it was just me! I fear I am the bland mummy at school who sticks to 'safe' topics of conversation. Oldest DC is 13 and I still only rarely break through the surface level of conversation to discuss anything real. I am totally unrecognizable at school to the highly opinionated, sometimes stroppy woman that I am at home or with people I've known forever. Am actually finding it quite scary and sad to think I am stood in the playground having a stepford wife type conversation with other women who may feel exactly the same way as me, but none of us will ever know for sure because we only express ourselves truthfully on sites like MN or with friends we had pre DC. Don't want to put myself 'out there' too much beause at school I am my DCs mummy, not just myself

[Fontella]

Another 'anti-social' one here. Always kept myself to myself, never socialised with other mums, chatted at school gates and all of that. I'm sure I've been talked about (in fact I KNOW I have) and I couldn't care less. They probably all think I'm a right stuck-up cow but so what if they do?

When DC were at first school I did get Tupperware Party and Coffee Morning invites shoved in to my hand, but as I never went to any, that soon dried up.

There would be little cliques hanging waiting around chatting and I'd be stood all on my own (by choice) would pick up DC and off. I wouldn't ignore someone if they spoke to me of course, but tended to avoid putting myself in a situation where someone would.

I once volunteered to go and assist with an outing with my daughter's class in middle school. Sat at the back of the bus with the other parents and all they did was bitch about the school, the teachers, some of the children/their parents (needless to say parents who weren't there). It reminded me why I'd kept myself to myself all those years.

I might sound like a miserable old so and so, but I just prefer it this way. Less hassle all round. DC haven't suffered in any way - both have good social lives, and whilst I do speak to other parents on the phone occasionally - lifts, about DC's social arrangements etc. that's as far as it goes.

[Druzhok]

Yes, karma, that's true: I do feel that I'm DS's Mum and so my usual line of dirty jokes and outlandish political opinions is really not going to do him any good.

Fontella: you are encouraging me along the path to solitude!

[Fayrazzled]

I went out with some mums from school last week for dinner and I could have wept with boredom. There are intelligent, confident women some of whom have (or had) interesting jobs. I swear to God, they did not stop talking about their children ALL evening. If I could get a word in and attempt to change topic, it ALWAYS came back to the children and/or school. I found it so depressing. I'm a SAHM and find it infuriating when people sneer at SAHMs as having being dull or uninteresting, but honestly, this night out was beyond tedious. I live in a very middle class, WASP-ish town though and don't know if the pushy parenting thing is what drives it. I'm not sure the mums wanted to hear about each others' children, but they were were happy to put up with it to get their own two pennorth in about their own IYSWIM?

[Druzhok]

suspects Fayrazzled of living in same town as self

[JohnPeelwasmyhero]

Druzhok, I suspect you are living in the wrong place - you sound like you would fit in fine with me and the mums I know - some places are so insular and parochial.

[Druzhok]

Ah, so I just have to uproot my entire family to fix my social life Sorted!

[brass]

Someone mentioned pecking order and I have to agree. There was always this niggling feeling I had with some mums and realised that the pecking order also extended to the children. Alpha mum had to have alpha child and if your child shone for some reason they found it difficult to be happy or gracious or supportive when appropriate.

Yes we're reminded of our time in the school playground and whilst some of us clearly move on others remain there with the same expectations and behaviour.