Not to be arsed with fake Mummy friends anymore?

[Druzhok]

In the last 6 months, I've dropped my ante natal group (DS is nearly 5 and I still don't feel comfortable in their company) and a group of local-ish women I first met online.

I'm not boasting about this - in fact, I worry what kind of an anti social, unfriended outcast I've turned into and what effect it will have on my children's social standing - but I just can't DO it anymore. I can't be arsed with the inane chatter and fakery.

DS is starting school soon, so in a way I'm looking to that, but - pah - I just don't think I do it very well at all. I can't offer the commitment and plasticity required.

BTW, these are not terrible people: they have been very good to me at times (and vice versa). I just don't think we really like each other that much

Didn't know where to put this. Would appreciate other's POV, though, not least because no one else is talking to me anymore ...

[JFly]

I can understand your decision. I find I have little energy to deal with people who don't add to my life. And that's a part of getting older, I think. And being lazy, I guess.

It is tough (and brave), though, to get rid of friendships. Especially if it's pretty much your whole circle. It might be a bit lonely for a while, and that would be hard for me.

I get what you mean about being consumed by being a parent. It is very easy to get sucked into the routine of friendships that revolve around your children if your life is your children. I don't do much other than take care of DS, and his socialising is my socialising. I hope that once he reaches school age, my circle will broaden as I start to do more without him in tow. Saying that, no. 2 is due in November, so it's back to square one!

FWIW, MN has been an interesting distraction from RL, and I've met quite a few people that I'd call friends here. And I continue to make friends as time goes on. So don't underestimate the value of MN!

[Druzhok]

Just to clarify: the friendships (well, my part in them) were fake, not the actual people. They seem nice enough women, truly, but what pagwatch said really rings true: "If the majority of a group are trying desperately not to fuck up it does tend to limit the conversation."

I suppose I want honesty and real laughs from my friends.

I'm not wacky or wild (far from it, these days), but I do find the polite stuff a bit difficult to plough through. It has been 5 years ... I did try ...

To be fair, I think there is a natural inclination to be more protective of one's image when one has children. I live in quite a middle class yummy mummy type area (pretty broad strokes, I know) and it sometimes seems as if social strategising on behalf of the children takes precedence over true friendships.

[smugaboo]

ProfYaffle,
Your friend plagarised that theory re uni and friends from 'Brideshead Revisted'. That was exactly what the main character's older brother told him when he visited him at university.

... Ok, I'll crawl back into my hole now.

[pagwatch]

I have found that like tracking down prey , you have to single out a likely victim mate and get them alone. Then you can see if you actually like each other or not.

My friend alaways says 'turn up at school functions with 200 fags and a carry out of wine tucked under your arm. The people that wander over to chat are the least scared and the best prospects'

[haoshiji]

Slur "I listened to a very interesting piece on women's hour about friendship the other week (scorn ye not Wh is v good)."

The funniest thing I ever heard on WH was around the time of the last Iranian Election. The presenter was talking to an Iranian husband and wife based in the UK and said "Can you tell me your thoughts on the upcoming Iranian erection."

Silence for a second and then she said um.. er.. Election.

WH can be quite good; sometimes though it's like WW II is still on.

Hum.. Back to OP topic though.... UANBU - It's hard work 'pretending' to like people.

At work there are a group of laydeees that slag each other off to high heaven when each other is not around and then gladly chat about the price of apples, those carrier bags are not so good as they used to be - and they charge for them, cat's gone off its food, blah, blah, blah.... when they are all together.

[RuthieCohen]

It's the lack of honesty and fear of saying the wrong thing that keep these groups of 'mummy' friends so unrewarding and superficial - pagwatch is spot on.

I moved to a new city just before I had DS and worried that I'd struggle to make new friends. I was told that having a baby would mean that I'd make loads of 'super new chums' and it'd all be fine and cosy. Well, I have met lots of other women and for the most part all we have in common is the fact that we've spawned. I miss saying what I really think without their cat's-bum-face looks and talking about something other than bloody BABY FOOD for the thousandth time I think I'm lonelier within these groups than without them and I'm considering ditching the lot of them. So.. .. YANBU.

[Druzhok]

Ruthie, I hear that. I so, so, so miss saying (and hearing) real opinions.

Don't suppose you moved to the Midlands? Not that I should be attempting to make friends when I am obviously so piss poor at it.

[RuthieCohen]

nah, I moved my misanthropic arse to the West Country..

(liking the idea of taking 200 fags and a vat of scrumpy to the next baby group and seeing who doesn't run away )

[Druzhok]

ACtually, there is another group I mentioned in my OP - the women I met on the internet. They were the antidote to the antenatal group: honest, funny and unfettered by too many social considerations. But then I found that too much of an extreme, also: I was becoming a bit cat's-bum-mouth myself.

suspects self of being contrary and impossible to please, thus unworthy of the friendship of others

[loler]

It's interesting to see that a few people on here said that it's easier when the dc get to school. I found it much worse - lots of fake friending there so that the DC don't become social lepers just because of me.

[Druzhok]

Ah, I came from there originally. I am a long way from home.

Ooh, I didn't mean to put that in bold

[Druzhok]

loler: yeah, I'm pretty much dreading it in lots of ways School is going to be the real deal, I suspect.

[porcamiseria]

OP yanbu

I like the mummy friends I met but god I missed the honest, bawdy, swearing chat I had with my real friends. In time it gets more "real" but the ongoing baby chat (with the competitive undertone) of NCT nearly did me in!

I work FT so this is not an issue for me, but will be when I go on mat leave

but dont burn bridges completely, some might feel same as you?

[yellowvan]

I find school horrendous for EXACTLY all the reasons stated above. I hate it, and unfortunately my social leper-y is rubbing off on DS,(though he's pretty self sufficient and does actually enjoy school) and I find that hard, while simultaneously indignantly thinking why should he/I struggle to become what we're not just to fit in.

I try, but some days I just CBA, so therefore come across as 'blows hot and cold woman'.

Just enjoy time with your family. I keep telling myself it's ok to be socially gauche/nervous and stuttery/in need of lightening up (not saying you are those things, op, but I know I am, and d'you know what? its ok.)

[Cortina]

Druzhok, you said: To be fair, I think there is a natural inclination to be more protective of one's image when one has children. I live in quite a middle class yummy mummy type area (pretty broad strokes, I know) and it sometimes seems as if social strategising on behalf of the children takes precedence over true friendships.

How does the social strategising manifest itself? Can you elaborate. It's an interesting discussion, what drives all of this?

[TheMoonOnAStick]

I think a bit like you Druzhok. It wasn't so much making friends post babies, it was just that it seemed overwhelming to suddenly get to know such a lot of new people all at once. Like we'd all click just because we were in the same boat.

I tend to be a bit of a loner anyway prefering just a few friends. Post babies I just wanted to be with my new dc and found relentless coffee mornings an intrusion. But it seemed that I should be doing all that because well, it's what you do as a new mum isn't it? And it was such new territory for me that I didn't feel confident enough to go with my gut feeling and buck the trend. But I really did find it quite stifling.

How on earth you say that to people though without sounding like an anti-social git always eluded me so I went along with it. It's part of becoming a mum that's never sat too well with me.

Now dc are at school we do have their friends back etc, but as the dc are older it doesn't seem so expected that I keep meeting up with the mums although it's certainly there if I want it, I think because many still do and they still ask me to things.

The thing is I actually very much like many of them. They are kind and supportive and friendly. And while I do love to join in - occasionally is really enough for me. It's how I feel comfortable in friendships - with some space in them. It's me, not them.

I realise that for most women a friendship involves much more, but I'm not wired up that way.

[Cortina]

TheMoonOnAStick - I don't think you are alone in this feeling. I could have written your post.

[TheMoonOnAStick]

It astonishes me how much time they all want to spend together. I just cannot do it.

I love the friends I have but I do like to keep people a bit at arms length, I think.

Cortina - It's good to read that other people feel like this. Most women I know in rl don't seem to think that way at all.

Even now 'we must meet up for coffe' makes me want to run. Not because I wouldn't love to. Yes, I would. But because I know it usually means that's it..we must meet for coffee regulary in perpetuity with no escape, and it's so suffocating to me.

[domesticsluttery]

YANBU.

I breathed a sigh of relief when my youngest started FT school this year and so I could stop spending quite so much time with some of my toddler group aquaintances. I always felt guilty that I should be meeting up with them for DD's sake, but now she is in school all day it is my own problem if I spend my days off work on my own!

There are a few very good friends that I have met since having children. For example a woman who had her first child the same day as I had mine and we were in beds next to each other in the hospital... turned out we lived near each other, our eldest children are in the same class at school, we were pregnant again at the same time 4 years later with our DDs who are now also in the same class, plus we have a lot in common. But for every one of these genuine good friends who will hopefully stay with me long after the DC have grown up there are a good few mums that I just have nothing in common with.

It stands to reason that you only take a small number of friends on with you from each stage in your life. I am only in regular contact with a few friends from school, same with friends from university and from my first proper job. The same is true of baby and toddler group friends.

[Druzhok]

yellowvan: "I try, but some days I just CBA, so therefore come across as 'blows hot and cold woman'" - that made me laugh and is SO what I do! I still reply to the occasional email in a very jolly tone, so they must think I'm really, really odd.

Cortina: I suppose I mean that there is a lot of attention paid to the wealthier Mums and that their children are often permitted to be ghastly without any repercussions; indeed, friendships are sought (the Mums pushing the children) on what seems to be little basis other than parental income and size of extension. Location is another key factor: although all the local schools are very good (we are lucky), there is a definite faction that has developed between the mothers of the children going to the 'best' (source: Ofsted and rumour mill) of the local schools. They are terribly impressed with their social achievements. They do not want to let it slip. I am thinking of 3 specific women (rather than just having a pop at anyone paying a higher rate of tax), by the way. They are very, very socially aware and careful.

It just gets too fucking petty bourgeois for me, really. I feel a bit lost amidst all the self satisfaction. It's not a constant source of grief for me - generally I just ignore it/laugh up my sleeve - but I don't enjoy it.

[Cortina]

It's a bit of a taboo I think. I feel as if I must be deeply pre-occupied and selfish sometimes if I don't want to invite X's entire family around for a BBQ all day Sunday. It isn't that I don't like X but I value the time I get to myself more and of course with my family. The memory of the actually lovely family who came one Sunday for lunch at 1pm at 8.00pm they asked whether we wanted to get a take away for later, as we'd done lunch, and produced a DVD for us all to watch. DH retreated to the kitchen and began to wash up very noisily.

I like to dip in and out as it suits me. I am happier on my own and I think sometimes women are scared of looking unpopular in some way if they admit that they wouldn't mind having a coffee on their own in a cafe sometimes. I have got some very funny looks before, if I can make it to a cafe, and have an odd snatched half an hour to myself. Absolute bliss, coffee and a book and no-one and
nothing else .

I found it very strange to be 'obliged' to ask every member in our NCT group to everything, every walk, every coffee etc. I couldn't ask one on their own, I was swiftly informed as the others might be offended.

[Druzhok]

Moononastick: yes, I think I am like that, but I WANT to be terribly social and popular . I just need to accept my anti social tendences.

[Druzhok]

Cortina: but we lose so much of our own time when we have children. It is the one thing for which I grieve: some free time, someone, please!

[CheekyLittleSox]

What I woulds give to have some friends from an ante natal group. I live in a town where I hardly know people and the people I do know don't give me the time of day so tbh I find you unreasonable.

I'm in a bad mood today but what I would give to be able to go to a friends for coffee toi chat - could do with it!!

[Druzhok]

Aw, cheeky, now I feel baaaaaaaaaaad ... they did keep me afloat in the dark old days, but I don't really feel we were ever close friends.

Sorry you feel bad. Shall we make coffee at the same time and pretend? If we stir it really vigorously, it might even pass as something more glamorous ...