In thinking that a couple living in a one bed flat with 2 kids should not have decided to get 2 dogs ?

[nevereatbrownsnow]

Am watching tower block of commons and really don't see the logic in this.

Both dogs are peeing everywhere, those children have no beds and there little playspace is saturated in dog urine.

Children deserve a bed at least and cleanish floors to play on, makes me feel

Seems selfish, they have little money and feeding two dogs of that size is not cheap.

Feel really sorry for the poor girl in temporary accomodation tho.

[nevereatbrownsnow]

Dps insisting there were 3 dcs in the flat.

grrr.

LEM, I agree, I think more emphasis needs to be clamped on boys having to pay out for the next 18 yrs nd that means the csa clamping down.

Might make boys think on being a lot more careful in the very least.

[BigMomma3]

Yup dogs should be taken off them (if not the children). Flat dwellers should not be allowed to have dogs, simple. It's unfair on the dogs and the community as a whole - bloody dogshite in the stairwells and barking in enclosed spaces. Owning a dog is not a right.

I really cannot believe the people in that programme were for real. Are they that stupid that they would allow themselves to be filmed in those circumstances? That poor little girl proudly holding up her pink shoes that were falling apart saying she was lucky to have them like they were her most prized possession . Perhaps if her useless parents got rid of the bloody dogs they could get her some that are in one piece.

What I don't understand is why they are wallowing in 1/2 bed council flats with multiple DCs, did no one tell them they can get help with a deposit and claim housing benefit for an actual house with enough bedrooms if they get off their arses and look for one? I find it hard to believe that they would not be able to find a landlord that took DSS in those areas. Are they going to rot in those flats for years until they have enough kids that the council give them a nice, big house? Do they really not know that there are crisis loans, social fund grants etc, who would give them enough money to get their DCs a bed and some carpet. There is so much access to help and advice these days, I can't believe they don't know about it.

Also the loud mouth woman going on about being evicted from her council house because of rent arrears and her belongings being ripped apart . Pull the other one love, there must have been more going on than that. Councils would not evict people with DCs just for arrears unless they deemed that she was doing it intentionally or she was causing anti social problems. If she was on benefits or a low income she would have had access to free legal aid etc to fight them and surely they would have accepted even 1.00 a week in repayments if she was that hard up. If she could'nt pay her rent arrears how come she had enough money for fags - did you notice her sitting on the sofa in the other woman's flat with a fag in her hand in front of the DCs.

[MiladyDeWinter]

My family in Ireland and New York experienced poverty a la Angela's Ashes and they, like the characters, never even considered housing hulking great dogs to feed (no insurance in those days or flea treatment or any other op) when there were not even blankets or beds to go round or food for the children. Blankets were very expensive in those days because they were so crucial.

A dog was a real luxury unless it was a necessity ie the butcher's dog.

[scanty]

regarding the under occupancy - know it's not ideal to have houses underoccupied while others are overcrowded but do you really want to force someone to move from their family home and their neighbours/community where they might have payed rent all their life/ taxes and spent a lot on their home? Surely they are due some consideration for being good, responsible, paying tennats.

[MiladyDeWinter]

I might get a dog if I didn't have DH to be fair. It can get pretty scary here.

I wouldn't do what my next door but one did with their Staff when their front window was broken (drug debts) for the third time which was to throw the poor dog out of the door

I'd be a bit about using money meant for a basic standard of living for my DC on dogs though. Dogs are expensive!

[nevereatbrownsnow]

Scanty, it's unfortunate but yes they should, council housing should be means tested anyways imo

[junglist1]

What happened to the dog after that? I thought you were going to say out the window. You broke my heart for a split second

[chandellina]

I find it hard to make generalisations about how people should live, but what is this nonsense about dogs not being suitable to live in flats? I've never understood this very British attitude, and despite the assumption it's to do with animal kindness, it doesn't seem to hold up that the British are particular dog lovers.
There are 1 million-plus dogs happily living in New York City, mostly in apartments. There, the love of dogs is abundantly clear.

[Rhubarb]

I don't watch shite like this on TV because it makes me cringe.

Almost every family near me has a bloody dog. I used to love dogs but now I just can't stand them. On the school walk there must be around 10 dogs, some are Jack Russells and some are bloody huge vicious looking things.

I know of one TA who has been bitten on the same school walk and one dog was aggressive to me once - off the lead.

The path is covered in dog shite and when you get to the school all the dogs are tied up at the fences outside. They jump up at the kids walking past and make a bloody hell of a racket.

I complained to the Community Officer who said that because the dogs were secured, there was nothing he could do about it.

Many of these families have a large brood of children and then they throw a dog into the mix. I've now vowed that I will NEVER EVER get a bloody dog. I am sick of the sight of the stupid mutts.

[expatinscotland]

'Doesn't seem to be dog shit all over the streets of NYC either. I noticed that when I was there'

That's because the council actually employs environmental health wardens who do their job and fine people, on the spot, for allowing their dog to foul the pavement and not picking it up (or littering).

And if they get arsey, they get arrested, the dog thrown in the pound (they have to pay to get it back out) and another big fat fine.

If you don't police people, they go ghetto.

[expatinscotland]

'I've never understood this very British attitude, and despite the assumption it's to do with animal kindness, it doesn't seem to hold up that the British are particular dog lovers.'

They're the same way about cats. Titchy about allowing you to adopt one if you don't have a garden, but okay about letting them run about at large to foul where they will, mate and cause road accidents.

I've also notice far more unneutered dogs here.

Amazing!

Most cities in the US fine you for keeping an unneutered dog unless you are a registered breeder, or if the animal is caught running about at large, it's seized and neutered and you have to pay for that and fees to get it back or surrender it.

You also get a ticket for letting an animal run about off lead in many areas, unless you are in an off lead park.

That way, in a regular park, people can enjoy using it without having to worry about someone else's fucking dog.

[nevereatbrownsnow]

People who have cats and no litter tray really piss me off, cats like to do their business in the same place, if provided with a clean tray shouldnt crap in gardens.

[sweetkitty]

I walked to school for the first time in ages today and the amount of dog shit on the pavements was utterly disgusting especially outside the school gates. I mean who walks their dog to school then allows it to shit outside it, if people actually think there's nothing wrong with it then I don't think much will change their (tiny) minds.

[fernie3]

ok thanks to this thread I had to go and watch this programme online .
I have to say I am a little angry that those parents are allowed to spend money that they didnt earn on everything but what they actually need.I thought the single mother (I cant remember her name but she was 19) was great but that other family made me want to throw the computer.

I DO think social services need to be involved, even if they dont have space that is no excuse to live the way they were and the children clearly were not being cared for properly, there were drugs in the house etc it was all just wrong.

My house is untidy most of the time but I am pretty sure if I were in that situation I would get rid of the dogs, stop smoking and use the money I save in just a couple of weeks to connect up the cooker and buy a rug to cover the floor and some actual bedding.

[TiggyR]

And anyway how can you possibly complain about being overcrowded with humans when you can find space for two dogs? And what would be the benefit to those children if they were given ten flippin' bedrooms? They clearly have more urgent and obvious needs than physical space.

[nevereatbrownsnow]

I must confess it's not the kind of crap i'd usually watch, and was [shocked]

Did think they got a fair portrayel though and there was a fair mix of people.

I'm surprised they agreed to be filmed tbh,if i was living in those conditions with kds and some bugger wanted to film it i'd run for the merry hills!s'pose it must be normal for some people unfortunately

[mariedj]

In Scotland if you don't work and rely on benefits you get over £100 a year to help pay for your dog. Maybe its the same in England? Not saying that makes having dogs in this case is a good idea obviously.

[CardyMow]

Expat-not all HA's bend over backwards to keep people in their properties, especially when in my area they could fill the property 2,500 times over. I lost my job as the shop closed down (with 4 days notice), and it took 6 weeks for my housing benefit to come through. My HA had already taken me to court for a notice of seeking possesion, that only expired 3 weeks ago after 2 years. I had NO savings with which to pay the rent. So I totally disagree that that lady had to have done something wrong. She was in inner city London, and tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if her HA wasn't the same as mine, because 90% of their properties are in London. I happen to be in one of the other 10%. In areas like this with waiting lists of 5-6 years for a 3 bed house, in which time families are housed in one room in a B&B or even in a homeless hostel shared with drug addicts who leave their paraphernalia (sp?) lying around for your dc's to pick up (have been there and got the t-shirt!), they can kick you out and have new tenants in within 3 days. HA's in an area like that don't give a shit, because they don't have to.

[Trickle]

The single mum who lost her house due to rental arrears was working at the time. I believe she in part lost her job due to the homelessness - she also lost almost all her possesions. There was a massive reduction in her LHA/HB with no notice - she couldn't come to an arrangement with the council about the arrears and that is why she lost her tennancy.

My mum who used to be a housing officer says this is not unusual if you have a lazy housing officer. My mum would have got off her bum and done something about it - thereby meaning no family to rehouse in temporary accomodation. She had a collegue who couldn't be bothered and although a families rental arrears were confirmed as being HB responsiblity and would be paid an eviction notice was still sought as they couldn't be bothered with the leg and paper work it would have taken to postpone it.

It's not always the person's fault sometimes the system really is against you.

I'm looking at having to move out of a fairly well furnished home (negative equity will leave me with debt) into adapted council accomodation. This will mean no carpets, no curtains, no phone and worst no cooker. I do have a dog - but he cost £10 every 6 weeks to feed, am I supposed to rehome him in order to save the money from his food for the next 3 years so I can get a cooker? I don't have a microwave either so I really am buggered.

[Trickle]

Oh - and social loans are quite tight, a carpet is not essential, neither are curtains if I am lucky I will be able to 'prove' that I need one carpet in the front room for a crawling baby - and possibly one on the stairs in case I fall. I'll be lucky though - in fact very lucky as i'll have a stair lift so falls will be unlikely.

[CardyMow]

BUT I have to say, I have been unable to work for 2 years due to my disability, and I have gone from a size 16 when I was working to a size 12 now. NOT through dieting, but to make sure my dc's are fed a varied diet and their 5 a day. I own no pets, I had a dog when I was working, when he passed away a year ago, I had to say to the DC's that we could no longer afford to keep a dog. And even when he was still here, and getting incontinent through age, it didn't mean I had to leave it there around my dc's like this family did. . And while I do smoke, I smoke roll-ups, and spend £3.50 a week now. When I was working I smoked 20 a day, proper pre-made cigs. I am trying to give up, have tried patches, didn't work, can't use champix due to my epilepsy, am trying to cut down with a view to giving up as I can't afford it.

BUT as for contraception etc, I was on the pill AND used a condom when I fell with DD, didn't take MAP as I (wrongly, at 15) assumed I would be covered by the pill when the condom split. Didn't know that antibiotics interfered with the pill. Also assumed as I was engaged, that my fiance didn't have someone ELSE pg at the same time.

So I started using the depo injection. Along came DS1. Then I decided to have the norplan implant, with a mirena coil for good measure. The implant didn't work, and DS2 CAME OUT holding the coil. . I have since been told that I am in the 0.1% of the population that hormonal contraception doesn't work for. I use condoms and hope for the best. As I would NEVER have a termination unless I had been raped. Sorry, don't need to justify that one. Freedom of choice. This isn't hitler's germany, no-one gets to enforce terminations or sterilisations on anyone else, as it would always be open to abuse, and the risk of opening the UK up to ethnic cleansing.

And I DIDN'T have ANY of my DC's while I was on benefits, I and/or my partner were working at the time that each dc was conceived. Just life has a way of fucking with your plans, and not everyone can get themselves out of situations they are in.

BUT, hell, I'M on benefits, and I was judging that family, fgs, all my dc's have new clothes and shoes when they need them, and bedding on their beds (a brand new bed sheet costs £3.00 in tesco's...christ, where are their child tax credits and child benefit GOING?!). I have saved to enable me to take my DC's to the natural history museum on Friday in HT. So, go ahead and judge them for their obvious lack of parenting skills, you DON'T put yourself first when you have children, that's parenting rule number one. BUT don't judge them for being in a 1-bed flat, that's the responsibility of their local council.

AND while I agree in principle that single people/a couple in a 3/4/5 bed house should be made to give it up when their dc's are grown up, what happens if you have dc's that may NEVER live independantly like my DD and my DS2, who would STILL need a room each plus a room for me, therefore still needing a 3 bed house. Am I meant to kick them out when they hit 18yo, or put them in residential care just because someone with YOUNGER children that are in need may need the house. So I think it would have to be done on a case by case basis, which just isn't possible as it would cost too much to run. It would solve the 5/6 yr wait for a 3 bed in my LA now though. Might create a shortage of 1-beds for adult dc's to move into though. The real solution is to build more council/HA housing, but in a large, oversaturated town, where the hell would they build them?

[nevereatbrownsnow]

Ooooh loudlass you put it so well

The family arent to be judged for being on benefits in a one bed flat (council or otherwise } or even for having incontinent dogs really)

My big, fat, judgeypants were applied for simply not caring and doing the best they can.

[probono]

Never, if you are still around, great post, very heartfelt.