To think that this boy does not have a disability?

[Upwind]

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jul/04/autism-asperger-s-education-society

I don't doubt he would, and did, benefit from special adjustments being made and an individual timetable. But so would most children. It is a shame that "a label", in this case an Asperger's diagnosis is necessary to get that.

I can't help but wonder whether changing schools so often, and allowing him to work on novels all night and sleep all day, has contributed to Alex's social isolation. I really hope that he can come into his own and thrive at Cambridge.

The boy himself seems to agree with me: "I don't think I've got a disability. I like being me." The diagnosis of Asperger's felt, he says, "like a label. I felt like a jam jar."

[duchesse]

That's just it, Reallytired. I don't think Cambridge does have that a suicide rate. While I was there (three years) I think one person killed themselves. Partly because everything, particularly at the older colleges, is taken care of. You don't need to cook, shop, pay bills etc to more than one place per term, which removes a lot of pressure from people who aren't necessarily able to cope with it. I include myself in that number. I really rather enjoyed not having to do all that stuff, and to concentrate on friendships (that I'd found difficult till then) and my subject (at which I was hardly stellar, but still enjoyed).

[kathyis6incheshigh]

Doesn't his mum also live in Cambridgeshire, so she will be able to keep an eye on him to some extent.
I do think there is a good chance he will find university life easier to deal with than school. He can be almost nocturnal if he wants - no-one will force him to go to lectures as long as he does the work and turns up to a supervision every week.
As for stuff like sitting exams on his own, which by all accounts so many schools seem to find hard to deal with, this is bread-and-butter stuff to most decent universities these days.
It also says on the article that online he comes over completely differently - witty and sociable. DH has a lot of students like this; works fine as they just communicate with their lecturers via Moodle (online learning environment) rather than face-to-face. Some of the students who have emerged as 'leaders' in the student body in this environment have turned out to be people who have had extreme social phobia face-to-face.
I'm not making light of the real issues students with ASD can face, and it's hugely important to have good support facilities available for them, but potentially this story could have a happy ending.

[Reallytired]

duchesse, I have never studied at Cambridge, but I am surprised that students are so heavily looked after. It sounds more like a boarding school that my uni experience.

Do students at Cambridge ever live out in their second year? I found it a real challenging living in a private house in my second year. It really made me grow up.

Anyway Alex will eventually have to do all these things at some point in his life. You can't live at uni forever.

[duchesse]

We did technically live "out", but in college-owned houses run by landladies employed by the college. You still paid your bills to the college. I imagine that Trinity, which is the richest college in Cambridge, will have plenty of college-owned accommodation for all their students. My college would almost certainly have allowed someone struggling to remain in college anyway.

It was a wonderful experience, frankly. I felt really looked after.

[kathyis6incheshigh]

Of course some people do live at uni forever, they become those bachelor dons who live in college permanently. It's an interesting thought - I wonder how many have actually been people with some kind of SN who genuinely couldn't have coped in the outside world.

[iamtooknackeredforallthiscrap]

do u think some children are wrongly diagnosed because thier parents like the excuse? i am asking this genuinely and not to cause annoyance. someone close to me has been diagnosed but i cant help but feel his behaviour is more to do with the lack of parental affection/interest during his short life... ? its it upsetting me he will forever carry this label

[sunfleurs]

FFS why would anyone LIKE the "excuse"? Who the hell wants their child to have a disability? Ask yourself how you would feel if you took your beautiful, perfect child to nursery and after three weeks someone told you there were "concerns" about his behaviours and this in turn lead to a diagnosis of Aspergers or ASD. Would you "like" it? And then after you got your diagnosis which isn't easy I can tell you, everyone around you whispers that you must be a bad parent and have taken the easy option of the SN label to excuse that. What sort of awful person would do something like that? Not too many I am sure yet people close to me are thinking it about me and you that think it are thinking it about people close to you. I find this absolutely horrifying. I feel like throwing my PC out of the window at the ignorance displayed in this thread. Sadly it is not the only one of its kind.

It is the same old SN = Naughty crap that I see time and time again on here. The same judgemental attitudes. Not only do our kids have special needs but everyone thinks it is all our own fault and we are sneaky, weak f*ckers who are too ashamed to face up to our faults as parents so go to the extent of having them diagnosed with some kind of condition so we won't have to.

My Dad used to say all this and more and I said to him if DS couldn't walk and left wheelchair marks on the floor would you tell him off for making a mess - of course not. Yet you tell him off for behaviours relating to his disability, would you blame me for him being disabled. To do so with autism or aspergers is the same exact thing.

[screamingabdab]

iamknackered . But labels can be useful. They can help you get extra support. They can help you belong to a community of people who understand. They can help you access money. They can help your relatives make sense of something.

The problem comes when other people see the label as the whole story about you.

I have this internal debate with myself, because me and DH strongly suspect that DS1 may be someone with Aspergers. But we have not yet sought a diagnosis, because to us it is "just how he is", and we can make adjustments for it. The problem comes when others don't "get" him. Would a label help ? Up to a point- although there would, n doubt, be people who would not believe it, as we have seen on this thread.

I am slightly rambling here, so apologies if this makes no sense

[sunfleurs]

Personally if I was as confused by life as my ds appears to be a lot of the time I would welcome a "label" to let me know why I was like I was and all that help and understanding that "label" brings.

This "label" thing is not an issue to the labelled only those around them who see something shameful in it or are scared by it.

[screamingabdab]

Yes, sunfleurs, I agree.

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

An 'excuse'
My son's lovely. At home he's caring and considerate, he's a wonderful child but he doesn't cope well outside the classroom or in large groups. It's not an excuse. The poor kid's been bullied, he's been shouted at (alot) for things he doesn't understand. His life has been made a misery, as has mine. We've had heads that think he's so badly behaved that he'll be better off in a boarding school away from me . I've been forced to move him over and over again, no one wants to listen or accept that this very bright boy needs help rather then discipline. I've witnessed him being told he's an 'embarassment' because he sneezed three times at a christmas carol concert, then smiled at me because he was nervous. I can't leave him where he is because his life's a misery, if I move him then I'm making things worse, taking him away from the friends that he's managed to get. I tell teachers/heads that I think he has aspergers, they don't want to know "oh, we'll sort him out" , parents know nothing sometimes, they fail to see that he's silly in a group or a new environment because he can't help it, they can't see that he sticks to the rules because he can't help it, they can't see that he squirms when someone touches him because he can't help it, they can't see that he has a vocabularly from a sherlock holmes book because he can't help it, he's seen as a snob "he's above everyone else (current head's quote), he interupts, he can't help this either but we're working in it. My child used to have no eye contact with anyone, I've had to help him, I've had to help him not to back off when someone touches him because no one gives a shit. He's a 'naughty' child who should be in a 'boarding school so he can learn some discipline'. He's not violent, he's not disruptive, he's a lovely, helpful, caring, generous child but all people see is the aspects of him that are not like everyone else.

Shame on those that judge these children and their families! It's peoplelike you that make my life and that of my child so much harder, you and your ignorance!

[iamtooknackeredforallthiscrap]

sunfleurs

any need for ur kick off... ??

i was putting a simple question out there as i am concerned for a particular child!!

i dont think he is aspergers there is no doubt there is a problem but i dont believe that is it... the mother pushed and pushed for this diagnosis.. she saw a number of people who said he didnt have it b4 she found one that said yes... the school he is at didnt agree either.

Ask yourself how you would feel if you took your beautiful, perfect child to nursery

thats the point he isnt there beautiful perfect child the mother has never hidden her dislike for her son! she never ugs or kisses him she speaks to him like dirt! he went to nursery and nobody had conserns and neither did his school!

he tunes out what he doesnt like i have watched him do it when u speak to him like a normal person and give him some respect he acts in a perfectly normal manner but if u speak to him in a derogatory (spelling!??) manner he will tune you out what is abnormal about that?? it is a simple coping mechanism surely!!

i asked a simple question for help not to be shouted at and spoken to like an ignoramous

get all the facts b4 u kick off next time

[iamtooknackeredforallthiscrap]

and....

i do not judge at all, I have a friend with an aspergers child (genuine) i know how difficult it can be.

my child is adhd

the child i am talking about has been starved of affection and is showing in his behaviour

i wont come here for understanding or discussion in future its clear that isnt what u people are about!

[sunfleurs]

Fluffy that is just terrible. I thought I was up against it because I encounter those sort of attitudes every now and then but I certainly don't experience it in the sustained way your and your ds have.

It seems to me that SN are unprotected on MN and in RL I suppose. If I posted something negative about someones ethnicity I would be utterly roasted and eweryone would dive on the thread to take a turn but SN are just left to it. A few people come on and take a look but generally it is only those affected who get involved on these threads. "SN - nasty business, doesn't affect me, rather not think about it". Why is that? To me this ignorance and negative attitude towards SN is as bad as Racism, yet no-one gets pulled up about it. I defy someone to tell me what the difference is.

[sunfleurs]

Perhaps if you had posted all that information in your post it would have been helpful. I answered your post as it was.

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

iam too knackered:
There is alot of research to suggest that poor parenting does harm a child's progress/behaviour. I too have a relative who neglected their child. The mother wanted a girl so very much and was devistated when the baby was a boy. He'd spend all day in his cot. She'd feed him and change him but leave him there. My sister babysat one day, she was given orders to leave him in his cot, he used to lie there. Years later he has severe sn and behavioural problems. My son's aspergers isn't anything that can be helped though, he's been given all the love and attention I possibly can. He's lovely at home, he just doesn't cope in a group.

[sunfleurs]

My ds exactly the same as yours Fluffy. At home he is the happiest, most kind, funny and gentle boy your could ever meet. At school though it is another matter and anyone who sees him in both places could be forgiven for thinking he is just "naughty" at school.

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

Thanks sun. He has yet another assessment morning for another school on Monday. I'm so keen to get him away from his current school, it's hard. I don't want to move him away from his friends again but I can't leave him to face this for another year. I feel awkward when I'm asked why I'm moving him again. I do feel like I've failed him, he'll never learn what he needs socially if I keep moving him but as long as he's got the 'naughty' label he's got no chance. I have told the new school that I'm waiting to get him diagnosed with aspergers but I do feel as if I'm giving the impression I'll move him again if things go slightly wrong so I don't know how things will go. When you explain that your child isn't naughty, he has signs of aspergers then they must think you are making excuses for their behaviour.

[iamtooknackeredforallthiscrap]

sunfleurs to quote my first post

someone close to me has been diagnosed but i cant help but feel his behaviour is more to do with the lack of parental affection/interest during his short life...?

its very upsetting from my position. i know they have told lies about him to the health officials for example they said he has never shown or liked affection from when he was a bbaby. i first met him when he was 18 months (thats when i joined his family) he was a very loving boy i never once saw his mother touch him hug him kiss him not even ruffle his hair as he passed by. he would sit up very close to me smiling at me until i hugged him he would tell me he loved me and was just totally adorable... how can they say he never showed affection he was brimming with it!

it breaks my heart

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

The school's call the strangest things 'naughty' don't they? Ds has started to appologise for the slightest thing, droping a pencil, asking for a drink, forgetting to flush the chain. I don't consider these as naughty yet he appologises as he's been told off for so much he thinks all he does is naughty. It makes me so sad. There have been children at his schools who are violent/swearing etc, he's never been like this. I can't help but think how telling a joke/sneezing in assembly/asking to draw a picture after finishing his work can be on par with being violent??

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

iamtooknackered:
I trained as a peads nurse a few years ago, it's very easy for people to exploit the system as the doctors are not witnessing the child on a day to day basis and are dependant on the primary carer's knowledge of the child to make a diagnosis. It's hard for you, I can see that. Just be there for this child. In the years to come he'll see the people around him for who they are. Your support and your love will mean so much to him.

[2shoes]

"It seems to me that SN are unprotected on MN and in RL I suppose. If I posted something negative about someones ethnicity I would be utterly roasted and eweryone would dive on the thread to take a turn but SN are just left to it. A few people come on and take a look but generally it is only those affected who get involved on these threads. "SN - nasty business, doesn't affect me, rather not think about it". Why is that? To me this ignorance and negative attitude towards SN is as bad as Racism, yet no-one gets pulled up about it. I defy someone to tell me what the difference is.
Sunfleurs I aggree

[iamtooknackeredforallthiscrap]

Thank you Fluffy

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

poor mite.

[PeachyTheRiverParrettHarlot]

' '

Yep pag, ds1 finished reading it last night. when asked if that semed like him he looked at me as if were nuts and said noooooooo in a most dismissive tone

AS Is aid on another threwad yesterday, we did have The Chat recently about labels and disability and he thinks it is a disability, and he'd rather lose a leg than be friendless.

(I put a lot of disclaimers on yesterday for putrposes of notn offedinga nyone)

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Mumsnet Discussions: Am I being unreasonable? : To think that this boy does not have a disability? (100 messages)
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By FluffyBunnyGoneBad on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:34:46
poor mite.
By iamtooknackeredforallthiscrap on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:31:40
Thank you Fluffy
By 2shoes on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:28:25
"It seems to me that SN are unprotected on MN and in RL I suppose. If I posted something negative about someones ethnicity I would be utterly roasted and eweryone would dive on the thread to take a turn but SN are just left to it. A few people come on and take a look but generally it is only those affected who get involved on these threads. "SN - nasty business, doesn't affect me, rather not think about it". Why is that? To me this ignorance and negative attitude towards SN is as bad as Racism, yet no-one gets pulled up about it. I defy someone to tell me what the difference is.
Sunfleurs I aggree
By FluffyBunnyGoneBad on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:21:17
iamtooknackered:
I trained as a peads nurse a few years ago, it's very easy for people to exploit the system as the doctors are not witnessing the child on a day to day basis and are dependant on the primary carer's knowledge of the child to make a diagnosis. It's hard for you, I can see that. Just be there for this child. In the years to come he'll see the people around him for who they are. Your support and your love will mean so much to him.
By FluffyBunnyGoneBad on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:18:09
The school's call the strangest things 'naughty' don't they? Ds has started to appologise for the slightest thing, droping a pencil, asking for a drink, forgetting to flush the chain. I don't consider these as naughty yet he appologises as he's been told off for so much he thinks all he does is naughty. It makes me so sad. There have been children at his schools who are violent/swearing etc, he's never been like this. I can't help but think how telling a joke/sneezing in assembly/asking to draw a picture after finishing his work can be on par with being violent??
By iamtooknackeredforallthiscrap on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:14:56
sunfleurs to quote my first post

someone close to me has been diagnosed but i cant help but feel his behaviour is more to do with the lack of parental affection/interest during his short life...?

its very upsetting from my position. i know they have told lies about him to the health officials for example they said he has never shown or liked affection from when he was a bbaby. i first met him when he was 18 months (thats when i joined his family) he was a very loving boy i never once saw his mother touch him hug him kiss him not even ruffle his hair as he passed by. he would sit up very close to me smiling at me until i hugged him he would tell me he loved me and was just totally adorable... how can they say he never showed affection he was brimming with it!

it breaks my heart
By FluffyBunnyGoneBad on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:14:08
Thanks sun. He has yet another assessment morning for another school on Monday. I'm so keen to get him away from his current school, it's hard. I don't want to move him away from his friends again but I can't leave him to face this for another year. I feel awkward when I'm asked why I'm moving him again. I do feel like I've failed him, he'll never learn what he needs socially if I keep moving him but as long as he's got the 'naughty' label he's got no chance. I have told the new school that I'm waiting to get him diagnosed with aspergers but I do feel as if I'm giving the impression I'll move him again if things go slightly wrong so I don't know how things will go. When you explain that your child isn't naughty, he has signs of aspergers then they must think you are making excuses for their behaviour.
By sunfleurs on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:11:26
My ds exactly the same as yours Fluffy. At home he is the happiest, most kind, funny and gentle boy your could ever meet. At school though it is another matter and anyone who sees him in both places could be forgiven for thinking he is just "naughty" at school.
By FluffyBunnyGoneBad on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:07:49
iam too knackered:
There is alot of research to suggest that poor parenting does harm a child's progress/behaviour. I too have a relative who neglected their child. The mother wanted a girl so very much and was devistated when the baby was a boy. He'd spend all day in his cot. She'd feed him and change him but leave him there. My sister babysat one day, she was given orders to leave him in his cot, he used to lie there. Years later he has severe sn and behavioural problems. My son's aspergers isn't anything that can be helped though, he's been given all the love and attention I possibly can. He's lovely at home, he just doesn't cope in a group.
By sunfleurs on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:07:13
Perhaps if you had posted all that information in your post it would have been helpful. I answered your post as it was.
By sunfleurs on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:05:27
Fluffy that is just terrible. I thought I was up against it because I encounter those sort of attitudes every now and then but I certainly don't experience it in the sustained way your and your ds have.

It seems to me that SN are unprotected on MN and in RL I suppose. If I posted something negative about someones ethnicity I would be utterly roasted and eweryone would dive on the thread to take a turn but SN are just left to it. A few people come on and take a look but generally it is only those affected who get involved on these threads. "SN - nasty business, doesn't affect me, rather not think about it". Why is that? To me this ignorance and negative attitude towards SN is as bad as Racism, yet no-one gets pulled up about it. I defy someone to tell me what the difference is.
By iamtooknackeredforallthiscrap on Thu 09-Jul-09 15:03:14
and....

i do not judge at all, I have a friend with an aspergers child (genuine) i know how difficult it can be.

my child is adhd

the child i am talking about has been starved of affection and is showing in his behaviour

i wont come here for understanding or discussion in future its clear that isnt what u people are about!
By iamtooknackeredforallthiscrap on Thu 09-Jul-09 14:59:54
sunfleurs

any need for ur kick off... ??

i was putting a simple question out there as i am concerned for a particular child!!

i dont think he is aspergers there is no doubt there is a problem but i dont believe that is it... the mother pushed and pushed for this diagnosis.. she saw a number of people who said he didnt have it b4 she found one that said yes... the school he is at didnt agree either.

Ask yourself how you would feel if you took your beautiful, perfect child to nursery

thats the point he isnt there beautiful perfect child the mother has never hidden her dislike for her son! she never ugs or kisses him she speaks to him like dirt! he went to nursery and nobody had conserns and neither did his school!

he tunes out what he doesnt like i have watched him do it when u speak to him like a normal person and give him some respect he acts in a perfectly normal manner but if u speak to him in a derogatory (spelling!??) manner he will tune you out what is abnormal about that?? it is a simple coping mechanism surely!!'

You know thats quite possible. ds1 copes brilliantly 1-1 with adults or in soem sits; when he is in a large group or at random other times he suddenl;y loses the ability to cope and kicks off- anything from flapping to trying to push ds2 under a car. That's normal with asd's according tot he PAed and NAS; an overloading of input if you will, so severe he gets dla at higher rate