To file for full CMS or not

[chrislt]

Long story short, the father of my unborn son broke up with me last June and he kept me on a string which I regrettably held on to (he is very narcissistic, by mine and his ex girlfriend's account, and I was very manipulated and fogged - details I won't go into).

This ended in me falling pregnant in September, which is when he fully discarded me. I decided to keep the baby which I felt was the right thing to do for me, and I have enough support around me to raise him right.

Baby dad was against the idea of me keeping him, and ultimately decided that he categorically did not want a child with me which is 'why he treats me the way he does', yet also states he will be there as a dad and will financially support him.

His base pay is around £45,000 p/a, and he earns a lot of commission on top. He took home £40,000 just in the month of January, and another £50,000 in the month of February this year. We discussed child support, and he suggested £450 pcm. Having looked at childcare costs, overheads etc and the fact I will be full time parent, I felt this was not enough. Childcare alone will be about £1000 pcm.

I negotiated £700 with him, and he called me a goldigger and it's not his job to support my lifestyle - I should have thought about this before 'getting pregnant'. He said that's ridiculous and not his duty to help just so I can go back to work.

Since then he has warned me that it may now be less than £700 because he may get demoted at any time, or even leave the company, and he has high overheads. However, we work together and I heard that he had bought a brand new Rolex. More than one colleague has confirmed to me that he bought it himself with his own money and it cost him around £20,000 +.
He doesn't seem to have it on show like he used to with his old one, and wants to 'keep it on the low'. He also just got back from a luxury holiday in Dubai driving Ferraris. He is buying a whole house (in London) and is planning a trip to Bali. He drives a very expensive car, has an expensive breed of dog, wears everything designer and eats out everyday.

Last week he had his own baby shower (I cancelled the joint one due to how he was treating me), and he received money from his family to buy things for the baby. There are plenty of things still left to buy, which he has not asked about, nor has he bothered to get. So far, I have purchased every single thing myself, without any help from him, apart from the travel system which he did pay half for. I dare even ask him to contribute to what is left to buy. My wage is £35,000 p/a so I have needed a lot of help from family to provide everything.

He doesn't know, but I am going to file with CMS so I can get the maximum out of him, which will be a whole lot more than what he suggested. (I mentioned this previously and he threatened to fiddle books which he can't as he is employed).

He holds a baby shower (for a baby he didn't want), keeps the money for himself, has not contributed to his unborn son, spends his money wildly, and tries to make out that what I am asking for is unreasonable?

It's not even about the money anymore, it's the fact that he hasn't contributed and is clearly lying and hiding things from me to try and not pay as much. I don't understand how or why you would not want to share your wealth with your child? Or at least provide the minimum to ensure he can go to nursery and live comfortably if you are able to do that?

On a side note, he doesn't really ask much about our unborn son. When he does, he doesn't ask any further probing questions beyond 'how is he doing'.

Am I being unreasonable for being fucking pissed off?

Any advice for what the future may look like trying to 'co-parent' with this type of person? I can imagine, but has anyone actually got experience behind them?

[CountryMumof4]

I've tried co-parenting with someone pretty selfish, and it didn't go well! Absolutely no interest in their child, unless their mum was involved. This is going back 25 years though, and they've got a great relationship now. I never had any financial support from him then, but he has given directly to our child in recent years.

Wishing you a safe delivery - congratulations!

[CountryMumof4]

Advice wise, I'd say to focus your energies on your child. And go for CMS if he doesn't contribute properly. Go in with absolutely no expectations of his involvement so you won't be disappointed. In an ideal world, he'll surprise you by stepping up, but he doesn't sound like the type.

[TheCheekyKob]

Watch him go for 50/50 childcare as quick as he can so he don’t pay.

or leave the country to work.

[Chatonette]

Grey Rock him. Don’t engage in his narcissistic tomfoolery. Ignore the Rolex/Ferrari Holiday/Baby Shower/ all else. Apply directly with CMS. Sorry bro, but you don’t get to negotiate your maintenance payments! And he “should have thought about that before he had unprotected sex” with you. Don’t engage with him, otherwise he’ll try to run circles around you.

[ivs]

If he earns £45kYour estimated child maintenance calculation£101.67 a week or £440.23 a month
but this does not include any bonus's - and assumes he never has the child overnight

He wont be made to pay you £1,000

[Haydenn]

Don’t try and co-parent let him push for access if he wants it. Go through CMS, get exactly what your child is entitled to.

[Delphina17]

@ivs

If he earns £45kYour estimated child maintenance calculation£101.67 a week or £440.23 a month
but this does not include any bonus's - and assumes he never has the child overnight

He wont be made to pay you £1,000

She said on some months he makes £40000/£50000 so if no more bonuses any other months he is on at least £140k. With those sort of bonuses he must be on £250-500k.

[chrislt]

@Delphina17

She said on some months he makes £40000/£50000 so if no more bonuses any other months he is on at least £140k. With those sort of bonuses he must be on £250-500k.

It's not bonuses, its commission, he works in sales. The commission is taxed so I assume it would also be included.

[Cloverforever]

You expect him to ask how his as yet unborn child is doing? Sorry, but that's a bit weird.

[Dweetfidilove]

This sounds like it’s going to be a long period of combat, so don’t try negotiating with him. Just go straight to CMS and in the meantime, ignore him, stop expecting him to care about you and your unborn baby; and tell others you don’t wish to hear about his affairs.

I hope you have good moral support, because you’re likely about to experience the true extent of procreating with someone you describe as a narcissist. Save your energy for when that time comes.

[DPotter]

I have never heard of a solo dad having a baby shower before!

Ignore him

Let him know he will be informed when the baby is born. Do not have him in the delivery room with you or waiting outside - far too much pressure on you.

Claim CMS as soon as the baby is born

Give the baby your surname, and only your surname

Accept that if he is to be involved with your son, to start with he will be doing so in your home. No way should you allow your baby out of the house without you for at least 6 months.

Do not rely on him for anything, and likewise when the time comes and he does take the baby out, he provides everything for the baby's care - nappies, spare clothes, etc etc..

Good luck

[BookArt]

Go through cms so they decide the amount and he can't use it against you. Be ready for silly antics, mine told CMS that he has the children more than he actually does... so waiting to see how that will work out.

Grey rock, don't tell him anything you don't have to. Focus on your child. Safe delivery and enjoy those cuddles.

Also, you might already know but he does not have to be at the birth. He can be introduced to your child when you are ready.

[GreatGateauxsby]

He is full of shit.

file for payment via CMS if he is making 200k+ a year you will get a WHOLE lot more than £700

[Delphina17]

@chrislt

It's not bonuses, its commission, he works in sales. The commission is taxed so I assume it would also be included.

Doesn't matter if it's bonus or commission, or how it's taxed. They will look at his overall income. If he makes on average 20k commission per month (which is possible if he made 40k and 50k in Jan/Feb) then he'd be on about 285k per annum. On that salary he will owe you a lot more than £700 per month!

[Roughlythisbig]

He needs to pay you 15% of his salary (before tax). If he's unwilling to do this go through CMS.

[jeaux90]

Lone parent here. Let me give you my advice as my ex was also a narcissist.

CMS
Only your surname
Debatable whether you put him in the birth certificate as then you will have to battle over lots of things legally so personally I wouldn't.
Grey rock him.
Stop thinking about him, he doesn't care so doesn't deserve your brain space.
You need to focus on your career and longer term earning potential because the best gift you can give yourself and your child is financial independence.

Now hopefully he is keeping the money from his family aside for the baby that was gifted to him but don't hold your breath. Honestly though, you are not entitled to have that money handed to you and the quicker you plan to go solo on your own with your own family support the better.

You can do this.

[BoohooWoohoo]

You’ve had some great advice.

Register baby on your own with your surname. Dad can go through the process of being added to the birth certificate later but doing the registration on your own means no risk of an argument on the day. Crap dads often insist on their surname.

Go to CMS but as pp said be ready for him to try and get out of paying you. He could quit his job every time CMS catch up with him, move abroad, go self employed… CMS is based on his income, not assets like savings so his Rolexes and holidays won’t change anything. I’ve read stories on here where dads try and deduct expenses from CM. Going through CMS will stop this kind of games.

[Hopelessnessness]

CMS can only deal with income up to a cap of £156k. If you have your baby full time, the CMS amount will still be (substantially) more than £1k, but the only way to have his full income taken into account, if he won’t do voluntarily, is to go through the Court. They will look at his total income for the last tax year and calculate the maintenance due based on that. Though you still need a CMS assessment to do that. CMS will make what is called a ‘maximum assessment’, which will get you the capped amount of child maintenance (likely to be £1.5k pcm or more), and also open the door to going to Court, should you decide to do so. It may be that showing him that you know all this, and aren’t afraid to act on it, is enough to get to him to start to take this seriously.

[Hopelessnessness]

And as others said, if he won’t be reasonable, don’t engage with him. It’s not on you to have to persuade him to do the right thing. Grey rock him, and go through official channels.

[neverendingcold]

Focus on baby. Right now assume you're doing it ALL alone. You don't need to think of nursery fees yet. Once baby is here safely yes go through CMS and be done with it. Don't negotiate. Don't rely on his money as he might do something like move to Dubai.

[Hopelessnessness]

@Roughlythisbig

He needs to pay you 15% of his salary (before tax). If he's unwilling to do this go through CMS.

This is not true. Child maintenance above the cap depends on a range of factors. But the most likely formula to be applied is the James v Seymour. There’s a calculator here which is helpful in getting a sense of what that’s likely to be (make sure you click through to the James v Seymour which is AFTER the Mostyn one, which is an earlier approach that has now been largely superseded).

[WillYouPutYourCoatOn]

How do you know he earned that amount? From what he's told you?

[Nbuip]

Hi @chrislt sorry you are in this situation. I have been in almost the exact same situation recently. Feel free to DM me.

What I would say is that, as hard as it may be, keeping him on side may be the best thing you can do financially. I do not underestimate how hard that is to do, I couldn’t do it for many months. But now, I humour him, give him praise for small things and it has meant he has become more generous, above even the cms rate. He is a pathetic excuse of a man and it’s awful that women are put in this horrendous situation where men are allowed to continue to abuse financially. So my advice would be to play the game as hard as it is. I even told my ex that I had taken out credit cards etc for things that my family had actually bought. I have no respect for the man but play it savvy is my advice. You’ll be ok (I’m sitting here drinking a tea as the sun sets, very happy, after moments where I genuinely wanted to take my own life after what he put me through. Promise it gets better) x

[chrislt]

@WillYouPutYourCoatOn

How do you know he earned that amount? From what he's told you?

I work at the same company and I understand the commission structure and how much the company makes each week.
I was also in a relationship with him and he was very open about his income

[WillYouPutYourCoatOn]

@chrislt

I work at the same company and I understand the commission structure and how much the company makes each week.
I was also in a relationship with him and he was very open about his income

I get that, but narcissists lie extensively about their earnings/material possessions. Ignore everything he told you. It will be exaggerated.

So your basis for this is working in the same building and seeing the company do well?

Have you seen a payslip. Have you seen any documentation from anyone other than him stating his actually earnings?

I say this as someone who experienced a narcissist faking both bank statements, property documents and even employed someone to Photoshop a passport to pretend he was born somewhere else. You don't realise these kind of twisted people exist until you encounter one. Don't underestimate the level of convincing bullshit on show here.