So angry! This will cost lives

[hellywelly3]

Anyone who has been trying to get a doctors appointment will now how difficult it is at the moment. Took an hour most days just to get through to reception. I had a nightmare getting a face to face appointment for a breast problem that I wanted looking at. I had 2 telephone ones first but eventually got a face to face one. I was examined and was told I would be referred to the breast clinic as it was agreed something felt not right. I got a telephone call after a few days offering me an appointment 8 days later. I felt so relieved that it was finally been taken seriously. Then this evening I got a phone call from hospital saying the consultant in charge of the clinic won’t see anyone due to COVID restrictions and now my appointment has been changed to a telephone one 2 days later! I said to the woman on the phone that it really wasn’t good enough and how can you fully assess someone over the phone. She said completely understood etc but she was just the messenger. I said this will cost people their lives to which she agreed and said I should tell my concerns to the consultant when they call. I really feel like crying I’m so worried. Sometimes it’s hard to describe a problem on the phone and I’m worried it will just get dismissed.

[FixTheBone]

@hellywelly3

So what happens to the 10-20 people that don’t now get seen?

Some get telephone appointments, some get seen as a priority over less urgent patients, who in turn get delayed, and some get seen less frequently, or discharged.

[FOJN]

The lack of urgency is really concerning in light of your recent updates. I understand hospitals have a backlog due to the pandemic and may have staffing issues due to self isolating but I still think there are a lot of fake covid excuses being made to justify poor service.

My GP surgery say they are busier than ever and I wonder if the telephone appointments for things that require a face to face consultation are a false economy with multiple phone calls taking place before correct diagnosis and treatment are delivered via a face to face appointment. The receptionist at my GP advised me to call and exaggerate my problem if I wanted a same day phone call, I don't want to do that but there is no option for advanced booking so I either exaggerate or don't get an appointment.

[youshouldbeplotting]

[quote Flyonawalk]@youshouldbeplotting I have not looked into his personal views. He is a respected economist.[/quote]
I am not so sure he is "respected" and his personal views very much influence his research. I am not so sure he is "respected". There was a lot about him on the now deleted State of Fear threads. His research methods have been called in to question in the past. For example, he carried out some very flawed research into the educational attainmentof children with gay/lesbian parents.

familyinequality.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/the-douglas-allen-study-of-canadian-children-of-gaylesbian-parents-is-worthless/

[Flowerlane]

I am having a nightmare with our doctors surgery as well at the moment. I have been trying for over a week to get a telephone appointment and am getting no where. I am in a lot of pain but the hospital have said I need a referral from my doctors before they can investigate further it’s getting to the point where I may just sit in a and e and refuse to move until they find what the pain is!!

I am really confused how I have had many of dentist appointments in the last few months where they are actually touching inside my mouth yet I can’t even be I the same room as my doctor

[Flyonawalk]

@youshouldbeplotting I have not looked into his personal views. He is a respected economist.

[youshouldbeplotting]

Thanks @flyonawalk. I think that is the chap I was actually thinking of. He is very right wing and has some v unsavoury views about gay people going to hell etc.

[Flyonawalk]

@youshouldbeplotting No it wasn’t the person you mention. It was Douglas W Allen, of Simon Fraser University in Canada.

His figure was that 282 years of life have been lost to lockdown, for every year of life saved.

His research is available online if you look up his name and university and ‘covid lockdown cost/benefits’.

[sparemonitor]

@DingDongDenny

What I don't understand is how come some health staff are on the front line dealing with Covid patients, while others like some GPs aren't seeing people because of Covid risk. Why can't they just use PPE?

As a GP, I must have hallucinated all the people I have seen face to face since COVID started. Please don't believe what you read in the papers. Demand is massively outstripping supply, due partly to covid but also because of years of underfunding but GPs are seeing patients and have been throughout.

[bloodywhitecat]

Please complain. My DH is one of those who is going to die because of poor services during Covid, even now he's finally been diagnosed with terminal cancer his care continues to be poor and disjointed.

[Whiskyinajar]

@Supersimkin2

GPs want phone calls cos it's less work. The Govt want phone calls cos it's less money - they and NHS England have published plans for AI to replace the GP.

Dr Robot doesn't need a salary or take maternity leave. Neither does Dr Handset.

I genuinely don't think GPs have realised that the more they fall into the lazy trap, the sooner they get their redundancy letter. The less human and skilled you are at your job, the easier you are to replace - even in the NHS.

There's a small shortage of GPs at the mo in the UK, but that won't last when the phone AI comes in. Doctors' jobs abroad are worse paid and harder work.

There is so much incorrect and lazy about your thinking that it's hard to know where to begin...so I won't.

You are very wrong...we have a massive shi4tage of GPs and they are facing huge issues meeting demand.

[SigrunGard]

I found a lump at the end of May 2020. Telephone triage with the GP, and had face to face appointment within 2 hours. Referred to the one stop breast clinic under the 2 week pathway and had an appointment for 8 days later (mammogram, ultrasound etc). Results face to face two weeks later and then two surgeries. So definitely complain to PALS - all my surgical appointments have been face to face, just oncology has been by phone but that worked fine

Best of luck

[eeyore228]

Absolutely complain. Not all areas are like this. My friend found a lump and was seen on the 2-week urgent referral service. She was seen quickly and is already booked in for treatment. This was all over the last 3 weeks.

[vivainsomnia]

@Theluggage15, you're the one who hasn't read the thread properly. OP is concerned that her appointment with the consultant won't be face to face but through the phone. I explained that this is ok and why.

My post wasn't patronising. Sadly, many people don't understand the system -understandably as it's complex- but are keen to criticize it rather than seeking understanding. The frustration is not much with OP but with posters who responded that this was very wrong and should complain.

NHS hospitals are currently struggling to recruit consultants. Cancer services are especially struggling. It means that the oncologist overseeing the referral could be based miles away anyway. As already explained, because of the risk of covid to cancer patients, it is especially important to minimise face to face contact. It really is for the best of the patients. Was it very good is that OP is being assessed within the two weeks. It should be expected that she is then sent for an ultrasound, hopefully within the week.

[Theluggage15]

She’s already been examined and referred @vivainsomnia. Your comment is pretty patronising and you haven’t actually read what the OP wrote in her post.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

GPs want phone calls cos it's less work

As I've mentioned on here before, mine wanted them because it gave the opportunity to tout for private consultations on NHS time. I'd hope it was an isolated example, but it's hard not to wonder how many others are doing the same

And yes I've changed doctors, and yes it's been reported, and no nothing appears to have been done because they're still doing the same

[strawberryforever]

@Supersimkin2

This definitely needs some evidence to support your statement. This is not my experience from friends abroad.

Good luck OP, I hope you get sorted soon.

[TurquoiseDress]

Doctors' jobs abroad are worse paid and harder work

Ha yes so that's why junior doctors are going over to work in Australia/NZ in their droves after completing foundation training in the UK

Any interesting links/resources to support this claim?

[TurquoiseDress]

GPs are indeed seeing people, once they've had phone triage & clinical examination is appropriate

The OP's first post clearly states she was seen face to face and referred

[vivainsomnia]

This is perfectly reasonable. A consultant won't be able to tell from touching your breast whether it's cancer or not. Most of the info they need should be started on the referral form from your GP. The only reason why patient see/speak to a consultant is because only the consultant can agree for the tests that will then need to be taken to confirm diagnosis.

They can speak with you just to get some further information, for instance to find out if it hurts, how big it is, is i inflammed etc... that will guide them, but not seeing you is in no way essential at this point.

Would you rather than they see every patients, increase the risk of catching Covid and passing it on to patients who do have cancer, who they do need to see, and who are immunosuppressant?

Thankfully you are being assessed within the timescales and hopefully will have an ultrasound very soon, which the consultant will review, and confirm that you are ok.

[Supersimkin2]

GPs want phone calls cos it's less work. The Govt want phone calls cos it's less money - they and NHS England have published plans for AI to replace the GP.

Dr Robot doesn't need a salary or take maternity leave. Neither does Dr Handset.

I genuinely don't think GPs have realised that the more they fall into the lazy trap, the sooner they get their redundancy letter. The less human and skilled you are at your job, the easier you are to replace - even in the NHS.

There's a small shortage of GPs at the mo in the UK, but that won't last when the phone AI comes in. Doctors' jobs abroad are worse paid and harder work.

[strawberryforever]

@ExpulsoCorona yes, she had two telephone appointments first and struggled to get a face to face one. So yes, we are reading the same thread. She's not had an appointment with the consultant yet so we have no idea whether she will be referred for tests (she likely will). Breast investigations are performed by Radiologists, Consultant radiographers and radiographer advanced practitioners. Breast surgeons have a very minor role in the diagnostic side. They are not involved in the screening process at all, they perform the operations once the diagnostic work is complete.

For the pp asking about workload. It's simply a massive increase in demand as symptomatic services never stopped. Referrals are through the roof. This coupled with the catch up in screening is putting services under a lot of pressure.

[Londonnight]

Complain to PALS. My mum did this a few weeks ago after being told she would have a telephone appointment due to chronic bowel issues. PALS were really good --- the next day she got a call from the consultant himself apologising that she should never have been offered a telephone appointment. She was then given a face to face appointment.

[jay55]

Using covid as an excuse right now feels totally off.

My best friend was diagnosed with breast cancer, face to face, during the first lockdown, when things were much stricter and far more chaotic.

Breast issues shouldn't be a postcode lottery.

I really hope you don't have anything seriously wrong, best of luck.

[Phatpheasant]

@Gwenhwyfar

"What I don't understand is why my mum in another country saw gp face to face numerous times since the first lockdown, yet here we get phone consultation...."

She probably lives in a country where doctor get paid for each consultation.
Phone consultation is OK for some things, but not for others. You can't be examined properly over Zoom and not at all on the phone.

We've done face to face the whole time. Massively reduced during first lockdown when it was all very new but since last summer it's been almost as normal, though patients prefer not to come in if it can be done over the phone.

I also don't see, unless the consultant is isolating, why you can't be seen. All our 2WW pathway patients are being seen as normal.