Admitted to hospital for covid but refused the vaccine

[MakeMineALarge1]

So it has just been on my local news that there are 19 people in hospitlal with covid and all of them had not taken up their offer of a vaccine.

This makes me angry, you refuse the vaccine but you'll accept hospital care, why?

[HUCKMUCK]

Vaccine hesitancy happens for many reasons. Some people don't have the capacity to assess all the information and make an informed decision. That is actually quite a scary position to be in for some people.

Have some empathy - not everyone is like you. It might be an obvious thought process to you that the jab is a simple risk reduction measure - people are scared and don't know what to believe.

[ProvisionallyAnxious]

Could people smugly saying that pregnancy is no reason not to get the vaccine kindly shove off and consider whether they would really have it without a second thought in pregnancy?

I am hugely pro-vaccine but after a lot of research and conversations with HCPs have decided to wait until I am no longer making decisions for my unborn child as well as myself. Every HCP I have spoken to has in fact been enormously ambivalent about the change in guidance around pregnancy, saying there is an enormous amount we just do not know about the m-RNA vaccines and their impact on babies in utero. There have been no longitudinal studies (by definition), and all scientists can say is that it is "unlikely" for the m-RNA to cross the placenta. There have also been a lot of yellow card reports regarding the effect of the vaccine on periods and my endometrium is doing a pretty important job right now that makes me feel uncomfortable to know the vaccine is affecting it in non-pregnant women.

I'm not saying I believe there definitely ARE dangers to the vaccine in pregnancy but the message I have received loud and clear is "we just don't know" once you get beyond the basic metric of stillbirth rates (which haven't been impacted, but that also isn't the only possible imaginable harm!) It's not an easy decision to make given the data available and implying that it is or that people carefully weighing up their own circumstances are morons who deserve no medical treatment is just... 🙄

[TheDailyCarbunkle]

I wouldn't get riled up by people like @spanielstail. I think attitudes like that come from genuine, bone-deep ignorance and people like that should be pitied. Can you imagine living with the belief that you need to pass some sort of threshold in order to deserve to live? That if someone judges to be too fat you should be allowed to die? What a horrible place that person's head must be.

[XenoBitch]

@spanielstail

I said this on another thread. Yes I think you should sign away your ability to seek medical are for covid if you turn down the vaccine.

I also believe smokers and obese people Should have a 6 month programme to turn things around or they are not covered for illnesses related to their lifestyle.

Sporting injuries should covered as the benefits of engaging in sport outweighs injury risk. There are no benefits to being obese.

Obesity, especially very high BMI, can not be very easily turned around in 6 months. There are often psychological issues with it too. A quick fix such as surgery, does not address why someone is overeating. You can't fix something like that in 6 months.
I am obese, thanks to anti-psychotics. Of course, I can just come off them and end up in A&E for self harm and suicide attempts, but according to you, that is my fault too so I should be denied treatment for that as well.

[Aspiringmatriarch]

@spanielstail

I said this on another thread. Yes I think you should sign away your ability to seek medical are for covid if you turn down the vaccine.

I also believe smokers and obese people Should have a 6 month programme to turn things around or they are not covered for illnesses related to their lifestyle.

Sporting injuries should covered as the benefits of engaging in sport outweighs injury risk. There are no benefits to being obese.

Well aren't you lovely.

[Aspiringmatriarch]

It's very sad. There's no reason to punish them, I can understand why people get anxious about the vaccine because there are some risks involved and a lot of scaremongering. The risks of catching covid are far higher, as these people have discovered, but I really hope they make a good recovery. I wouldn't for one moment think they didn't deserve medical care. That's just cruel.

[AllisoninWunderland]

What have we come to as a society when we have posts like this??
That people think we should refuse medical treatment to those who have either chosen not to or through no fault of their own, have not yet had the vaccine.
The government have really done a great job on creating this feeling. Backed up by the media of course. They want us to shame people into getting the Covid vaccine. They are easily turning citizens against other citizens to deflect their own cock-ups.
Wake up narrow minded people!
Smell the manipulation!

[Coatz]

So many idiots out there who think this vaccine is a miracle cure 🙄

Shall we also stop treating all those with lung cancer who are smokers because they haven't done all they can to prevent themselves being ill?

[bakebeans]

The vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting the virus. It’s meant to help you fight it off. I know 3 people who have had both vaccines and have contacted Covid. One is currently in hospital but has been told had she not had the vaccine, she would probably be in intensive care

[PurpleRainDancer]

Do F* off OP. Have a to go with your cup of self righteousness.

[spanielstail]

I said this on another thread. Yes I think you should sign away your ability to seek medical are for covid if you turn down the vaccine.

I also believe smokers and obese people Should have a 6 month programme to turn things around or they are not covered for illnesses related to their lifestyle.

Sporting injuries should covered as the benefits of engaging in sport outweighs injury risk. There are no benefits to being obese.

[KurtWilde]

@NailsNeedDoing

Because like everyone else in the country, they’re entitled to emergency health care when they need it.

This.

[XenoBitch]

@howaboutchocolate

I wonder if vaccine hesitant people are also hesitant about new treatments used for covid and ask how the trials went before they accept them.

It will depend why an individual is hesitant. People who are holding off having the vaccine all do so for their own reasons. They are not one homogeneous mass. They are also not guaranteed to end up in hospital if they get Covid, as keeps getting peddled in threads like these.

[BertieBotts]

Having treatment for something when you're already ill is a very different situation to taking a preventative medicine.

I am not against the corona vaccine or any other but you must be able to see that.

[howaboutchocolate]

I wonder if vaccine hesitant people are also hesitant about new treatments used for covid and ask how the trials went before they accept them.

[Heneage]

There are dozens of boy racers in a town near me. One span off the road recently and 19 "audience" members - who chose to stand and watch a fool and his car driving dangerously- needed hospital treatment as did he. Who should be prioritised for treatment? Him? Them? Someone with covid who chose not to have the vaccine, a mother of four? Someone with covid who is 90?
Medical decisions are horrendously complex and emotional and I thank god I don't have to make them.

[TheDailyCarbunkle]

[quote BlueBlancmange]@TheDailyCarbunkle

The vaccine in general is a good thing, but pretending there are no risks associated is pointless.

How come you are so concerned about the very small risk associated with the vaccine, and yet have been downplaying the far greater risks associated with Covid for months?[/quote]
That's actually a very sensible question @BlancBlancmange but the fact you have to ask it illustrates the whole problem with this situation.

Say there's a dangerous cliff walk. It's your choice to go on it and it's no one else's responsibility. Authorities may put up signs and warnings but they don't prevent you from going on the walk - there's a danger you might get hurt/die but that your choice and they trust you take enough precautions to protect yourself ie they don't police your life choices and treat you like a child.

However, say I build a building and invite people in. I'm rightly not allowed to do that unless the building meets certain regulations and is safe. I certainly can't tell people it's safe when I don't know if that's true - it's my responsibility to ensure people don't get hurt and if they do, it's my fault. In fact, it's a crime to create something that puts people in danger - a building, a food, a substance that I inject them with. The last example is called poisoning.

Do you see the difference? A virus out in the world creates danger that people can choose to protect themselves for or not - unless a government forces 'protection' on them that destroys lives and leaves our children with a bombed out economy.

Injecting people with something requires that you know it's safe, otherwise you're potentially poisoning them. That's not just a danger in the world, that's a danger created by the choices of others. If you then scare people into being injected in spite of the uncertainty around safety, there is a further level of duping people into putting their own lives in danger.

Thousands of dangers exist in the world - viruses of all sorts, weather, potential for accidents, etc. No one can protect you from them all. And protecting yourself by destroying your life and the lives of others can't be described as anything but stupid. But, if you go to that extreme to 'stay safe' and then roll up your sleeve happily to be injected with something with minimal testing so that you have no idea of the long term effects, what was the point? You've just traded one danger for another. You may avoid covid now, but what if in a few years time it comes out that these vaccines are linked with a greater incidence of autoimmune disorders? Or 50% of AZ recipients have a stroke after 5 years? What then? What'll you do to 'stay safe'? Well, nothing because it'll be too late. You'll just have to sit tight and wait to see if you're a victim.

[BlueBlancmange]

@TheDailyCarbunkle

The vaccine in general is a good thing, but pretending there are no risks associated is pointless.

How come you are so concerned about the very small risk associated with the vaccine, and yet have been downplaying the far greater risks associated with Covid for months?

[hp92]

I don't think anyone who is not a qualified medical professional should really be persuading anyone to get it or not.

[Test148]

Ah, this reminds me of a poster on MN who told me they hoped my Gran would be refused hospital care if she caught Covid when I said my Gran wasn’t worried about catching Covid in her care home because she wanted to die anyway.

As it happens, she did catch it and died quite happily with no hospital care but doesn’t mean she shouldn’t have be entitled to it had she wanted it.

Anyway, I’m derailing the thread. As you were!

[Mashagirl93]

I'm not being funny but there's a big difference between accepting hospital care and refusing a vaccine that people are clearly paranoid about taking due to blood clots and other complications it can cause. Everyone is entitled to hospital care. It's your choice if you want to vaccinate yourself or not. Leave people alone you don't know their personal story or journey.

[mumwon]

people can get covid & assume they don't need the vaccine (Because they know better or follow Joe Bloggs down the road who is an expert - emoji raised eye brows)
Because they are frightened of having AZ due to the scare tactics on the internet.
Because as a migrant worker they may not be entitled (or are afraid of being sent out of the country)
They have certain illnesses that cause blood clots & the stories on the web have frightened them
etc
because they moved & don't have a gp yet so are not on the list
Misinformation is rife

[wonderstuff]

What a ridiculous thing to say.
The spin on this is unbelievable.

Government fails to control borders and predictably a more virulent strain seeds in parts of the UK
Government fails to adequately implement track and trace, even though they know people can't afford to isolate they're refusing to support them, predictably virus continues to spread, particularly in poor areas.

But obviously we should be finger pointing at a few poor souls who haven't come forward for vaccination rather than any government failure.

Vaccine take up is very high, it's never ever going to be 100%.

[ddl1]

In all honesty, I DO think that if you are casual about your personal health, then you don't deserve to benefit from the newest treatment methods. If you get them regardless, it's as a guinea pig for the benefit of others who come later. I am not suggesting that people with congenital or chronic conditions should be disadvantaged in their access to the latest and best.

That's a horrible thing to say. Access to medical treatment is a right, not a reward. And how can you always disentangle 'casualness' about health from chronic or even congenital conditions (there are genetic factors in alcoholism, for example.)

[Becca19962014]

Acre = care (suppose I should be grateful autocorrect got the letters right!)