DM and her wishes for when she dies

[ScotlandUnited]

Apologies if this posts several times as MN seems glitchy
Will try not to make this too long!
My parents are almost 50 years married, been together 55 years, since teenagers. DF went to university several times, very educated, worked his way up to become a director, won awards, travelled internationally for work etc. DM left school with no qualifications, worked in shops and as a cleaner and also a SAHM. Both parents are great parents.
As they got older, however, this difference in their education and employment experiences caused strains between them. DF's travel caused resentment with DM who was stuck at home. She did have the option to travel with him, but when she did, she was bored, as she did not understand the subject or feel that she fit in. Not really DFs fault. What was DFs fault however, is that he fell in with the after work / lunch time drinking mindset and over the years developed quite a bit of a drink problem that has continued since he retired. He still socialises with old colleages and rarely with my DM. My DM feels like he is a lodger and they have nothing in common anymore. She also struggles with his verbal aggression when he has had too much to drink.
I have basically been my mum's counsellor for years now. have had to listen to her say how much she 'hates' him and wishes he was dead. She shouts at me and dad if we discuss things like politics because its boring. So as I said some things are his fault, some things are not. My DF tends to keep his feelings to himself although they argue a lot, so loudly the neighbours hear and complain.
Staying out of it isn't an option without going NC but I love my parents. There are mostly good times but the bad can be bad. My DSis lives abroad and we don't get on. She's closer to my DF than to DM and I'm closer to DM (don't have much of an option as she treats me like her counsellor!)
Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is because DM is asking me to promise that when she dies, I've to bury her alongside DGF and DGM and not with DF. She says she "doesn't care" what I do with DF when he dies whether he's buried or cremated or "dumped in a skip". Lovely huh? She keeps insisting that I respect her wishes and that she's serious.
So I am torn! I don't want to visit two graves for my parents but I also want to respect my DMs wishes too. I feel manipulated and that my mum is not thinking about me and how he's my dad. I don't get on with my DSis but I reckon she'd tell me to respect DMs wishes even though she was always closer to DF. I don't think my DF knows what DM is asking me and he'd be angry and upset.
DM does keep talking about divorce but its never happened and never will. I'm so tired of it all and it distresses me.
I know DM has a will. I don't know if the will states her burial wishes. If so, can I ignore her burial wishes if its in the will?
WIBU to completely ignore DMs wishes and bury her with DF? or do I have to respect her wishes?

[NoSquirrels]

Has anyone (your father, your mother) bought a burial plot yet?

If not, then it’s between them as husband and wife to discuss. Refuse to discuss it with her. Tell her straight that if she puts something about her burial wishes in her will that hasn’t been discussed with her husband of 55 years that you won’t feel obliged to honour it.

Why should you get the fallout, not her?

If your mother dies before your father, let your father make the decisions.
If your father dies before your mother, you could consider if cremation would be easier all round?

Either way, I think if she’s going to use it as a stick to beat someone with - you, her husband - then it’s best not to discuss it.

[Magicpaintbrush]

I actually think that to go against her wishes re. her burial would be a really really shitty thing to do to her. She obviously feels really strongly about it so why would you not do as she asks? If you bury her with your DF then essentially the last thing you ever do for her will actually be a betrayal. I wouldn't want to be buried with sonebody I hated either.

[Dotell]

This is what staying for the kids gets you.

[newnortherner111]

Encourage her to specify this in her will, that she wishes to be buried with her parents. Find out if there is space as well.

[tentosix]

But not next to her!

[tentosix]

Find out first is its possible to be buried with her parents. often they are full up anyway, and unlikely to have an additional person added, unless its just ashes.

I would honour her wishes as its unfair to promise something that means so much to her, even though it is probably very unimportant. Your DF can be buried in the same cemetary as your DM.

[saraclara]

@AnUnoriginalUsername

Of course you should respect her wishes. You'd be happy burying her with someone who makes her feel like shit just because it's more convenient for you? Won't you feel awful everytime you visit the grave knowing she doesn't want to be there? Put them in the same cemetery but different plots, it won't make your life that much more difficult.

I've not read any further yet, but absolutely that.

She's clearly enormously unhappy OP, yet you'd not do this one thing for her, because you don't want two separate graves to visit?

[starsparkle08]

I think it’s really sad that a lot of people have said nod and smile then do whatever you want once she’s dead as she won’t know .

You would know it’s not what she wanted and it would show a complete lack of respect . Your mum does need to put in writing her wishes and as others have said ensure it’s possible for her to be buried in the same plot as her parents

[SunshineCake]

I think it is too bad you don't want to visit two graves. It isn't your choice. Both parents could want to be cremated so then there wouldn't be any grave to visit. AFAIK wishes in wills are legally bound so she needs to state her burial choice there. I can't say I blame her for not wanting to be buried next to a man she doesn't seem to like never mind love. He's not exactly been a loving husband, has he ?

[Blossomtoes]

As someone who’s lived with a verbally abusive alcoholic, she has my every sympathy. Unfortunately leaving a 50 year marriage must be close to impossible, it must be absolutely dreadful for her.

Do what she wants ffs. She’s had a life time of misery, why should she lie next to its source for all eternity to spare you the inconvenience of visiting two graves?

Poor bloody woman.

[Shehasadiamondinthesky]

Agree to what she wants then do whatever the hell you want. When you're dead it matters not one jot what is done with your body and if there is an afterlife I'm quite sure there is more to it than continuing feuds you had when you were alive.
If my son buried me with my ex husband I couldn't care less, I'll be dead.

[AnnaMagnani]

There are practical answers and counselling/therapeutic answers.

I am going to go with the practical:

A burial is much more expensive than a cremation - is there the money for this? What if she dies first and her DH is responsible for arranging the funeral?

She can only be buried next to her parents 1. if there is room or 2. if there is an adjacent plot and she has bought it. Plots can be more expensive than houses in Knightsbridge in some graveyards

Instead of being an endless sounding board for her I'd ask her if she has made a pre-payment plan to sort this out or discussed practicalities with funeral directors/made a will. And leave it at that.

Counselling wise - I think you are unfair on your DM and seeing her life through a more compassionate lens might might her easier to cope with. She married your DF young at a time when women didn't have the same opportunities to go to university, were expected to be at home and have children. Your DF doesn't seem to have acknowledged her as a person, potentially has been an abusive drunk and she has ended up living through her children and oversharing with them.

It's a sad life, you probably don't know the half of it.

[MrsAmaretto]

When you buy a burial plot you specify how many folk it’s for. My grandparents bought a 3 person plot so there would be room for my uncle. So 1) your mother needs to establish what kind of plot her parents bought. Unless she is an only child, the other space is not necessarily hers!

2) Has she got a funeral plan or any means to pay for the funeral of her wishes, cause it’s bloody expensive buying a coffin, digging the hole, safely moving the headstone, putting it all back and inscribing the headstone. She may even have to buy a new headstone if there’s no space in the the current one and that again is horrifyingly expensive.

So if those are your mums wishes then instead of whining about it she needs to sort it out in advance. Otherwise 1) wtf are you wasting energy worrying about it now 2) if she’s married to your dad he’s the next of kin and it’s not up to you?

My gran wished to be buried in an eco coffin that looked like a hamper, my mum and her siblings took one look at the ridiculous price
And put her in the same type of coffin my grandpa had. She’s not come back to haunt them.

[daisyjgrey]

I mean..you don't have to visit any graves. It's not like they'll know is it. If you want to visit then thats one thing but "I don't want to have to visit two graves" is a bit...pointless.

[Vikingintraining]

Have you had a conversation with your dad about his wishes? He might not want to be buried with your mum anyway so your mum's wishes might suit them both.
Regardless, I do think you should respect your mum's wishes. If there's any conflict it's for them to resolve and have it put in writing in their will. Try to prompt the conversation so they discuss it between themselves.
I sympathise with your post. Your parents lives sound remarkably similar to my parents, and your relationship with them and your sibling also very similar to mine. I am also counsellor to my mum. I absolutely sympathise with your life.

[DeciduousPerennial]

My opinion about all this kind of thing isn’t conventional. In this instance I’d nod and agree now to keep her happy and get her to stop driving you mad about the bloody subject, and then do what will make your life easier when she’s gone (because she won’t be here to know).

[flippertygibbit]

You must do whatever she wants. I would recommend you get her to put it in writing.

[midlifecrash]

I think the answer really is 'Mum, unless you divorce him he is your next of kin and I don't get a say.

If that is what you want, prebook and arrange your funeral plan yourself'

this, as above. Is this really about where your Mum wants to be buried? You're not responsible for your parents' happiness - either or both of them - and you're not there to be used to score points, eg "ScotlandUnited has promised that I won't be buried with you and you'll be thrown in a skip"

Is there no one else your mother is close to? It is manipulative, the way she is involving you, and it is damaging your relationship

[PermanentTemporary]

I really wouldn't encourage her to put it in writing (obviously wouldn't stop her either). Keep things as flexible as you can.

[Icecreamsoda99]

Presuming you will visit the grave as a mark of respect to them or for comfort for yourself, I really can't see how you can thing you can ignore your mum's wishes, I mean won't you feel guilty about doing something she begged you not too

[TillyTopper]

If she wants that to happen she needs to put it in her will. However, she will have to have room in the grave she wants to be buried in. I understand that the first coffin to be in the earth has to be deeper if they want another on top, or they have to have bought a wider plot. So it may not be possible anyway. She should investigate this herself before putting it in her will. If she searches online she can contact whoever looks after the cemetery she wants to be buried in and ask them.

[EasterEggBelly]

I don’t know why you wouldn’t respect her wishes.

I hardly ever to go the graves of family members. To me they are not really there, I don’t get any comfort form ‘visiting’ them.

In all honesty your Dad will probably go first given the alcohol consumption and the fact he’s male so it’s possible he’d never know.

[IhaveMyMoments]

Get her to set our her funeral plan now. Sort her will and sort a plot out ready. Then you're not the one having to sort it.

[AdventureIsWaiting]

I suspect you are going to get a lot of replies, but for what it's worth:

1. My DM tries to pull similar tricks with me. I refuse point blank to entertain it. That's what her friends, or a professional counsellor, are for. Being a good parent, IMO, also includes not slagging off the other parent to your children. I love my Dad dearly and I don't want to be party to complaints about him, or their relationship troubles.

And to be really blunt (sorry):

1. You can promise her anything whilst she's alive. Once she's dead, she's dead and she won't know.

I know you say your parents were good parents, but emotional manipulation and getting drunk and aggressive don't sound like excellent parenting.

[Wildswimming3]

Having buried my mum in 2019, you just have to go with there is room. I was asked if I wanted a double grave (my mum was single) so I guess they meant me! Umm no. So just agree with your mum because I doubt it’s an option to be buried with her parents unless previously arranged