DM and her wishes for when she dies

[ScotlandUnited]

Apologies if this posts several times as MN seems glitchy
Will try not to make this too long!
My parents are almost 50 years married, been together 55 years, since teenagers. DF went to university several times, very educated, worked his way up to become a director, won awards, travelled internationally for work etc. DM left school with no qualifications, worked in shops and as a cleaner and also a SAHM. Both parents are great parents.
As they got older, however, this difference in their education and employment experiences caused strains between them. DF's travel caused resentment with DM who was stuck at home. She did have the option to travel with him, but when she did, she was bored, as she did not understand the subject or feel that she fit in. Not really DFs fault. What was DFs fault however, is that he fell in with the after work / lunch time drinking mindset and over the years developed quite a bit of a drink problem that has continued since he retired. He still socialises with old colleages and rarely with my DM. My DM feels like he is a lodger and they have nothing in common anymore. She also struggles with his verbal aggression when he has had too much to drink.
I have basically been my mum's counsellor for years now. have had to listen to her say how much she 'hates' him and wishes he was dead. She shouts at me and dad if we discuss things like politics because its boring. So as I said some things are his fault, some things are not. My DF tends to keep his feelings to himself although they argue a lot, so loudly the neighbours hear and complain.
Staying out of it isn't an option without going NC but I love my parents. There are mostly good times but the bad can be bad. My DSis lives abroad and we don't get on. She's closer to my DF than to DM and I'm closer to DM (don't have much of an option as she treats me like her counsellor!)
Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is because DM is asking me to promise that when she dies, I've to bury her alongside DGF and DGM and not with DF. She says she "doesn't care" what I do with DF when he dies whether he's buried or cremated or "dumped in a skip". Lovely huh? She keeps insisting that I respect her wishes and that she's serious.
So I am torn! I don't want to visit two graves for my parents but I also want to respect my DMs wishes too. I feel manipulated and that my mum is not thinking about me and how he's my dad. I don't get on with my DSis but I reckon she'd tell me to respect DMs wishes even though she was always closer to DF. I don't think my DF knows what DM is asking me and he'd be angry and upset.
DM does keep talking about divorce but its never happened and never will. I'm so tired of it all and it distresses me.
I know DM has a will. I don't know if the will states her burial wishes. If so, can I ignore her burial wishes if its in the will?
WIBU to completely ignore DMs wishes and bury her with DF? or do I have to respect her wishes?

[Ohyesiam]

You need to find boundaries with your mother. You’re her daughter not her therapist. I understand, ive been there, and my relationship with my mother is vastly improved for me saying no. My mum didn’t get it, had no idea what I mean when I say it’s not appropriate for her to dump on me, but gradually came to understand what I meant by no.

[DuckbilledSplatterPuff]

Your post made me feel so cross on your behalf!
I have known relatives like this, constantly ruminating over and talking about their death (for nearly 40 years!!!) to make everyone feel guilty and upset.in a way I found really distressing as a child.
Is there a medical reason why she is making this such an urgent issue?
I could be wrong but it looks like she is kicking off like this to spite your DF and underline how much she hates him and dragging you into it. It’s a BIG guilt trip drama isn’t it? Along the lines of “you’ll be sorry when I’m dead” it’s dreadful that she’s putting you through this. Putting it in her will tonight if you don’t agree to comply. That’s awful.

Why are you her counsellor? Isn’t this having a detrimental effect on you?

Also you say she has a prepaid funeral plan, look at the terms and conditions. Dont these plans more or less organise in advance what happens? She can plan this with them herself. I’d let her do that and then she knows her wishes will be followed.
It’s miserable what she’s doing to you.

[saraclara]

I have no idea why you'd want to talk to your dead parents 'together' when they clearly don't want to be.

If you have religious guilt, I'd have thought that you'd feel more guilty standing at that grave where you've put her with the person that she wanted to escape in death.

It makes no sense.

[MrsPaddyGrant]

If i were you I'd explain to DM that she needs to discuss with DF her wishes for when she dies. If she dies first then DF as NOK would be the one making the funeral arrangements - and it leaves you in a very difficult position trying to assert your DM's wishes re her burial arrangements. It seems very unfair of her to put this on you when you will also be grieving her loss. Why should you have to tell DF and have a difficult/ upsetting conversation when she's refusing to do it now when they can have a proper conversation?

If she does stipulate it in her will I think there is an obligation to carry out her wishes - but ultimately it will be your or DF's decision what happens.

My DF died 25 years ago - and DM bought a double burial plot and wanted to be buried with him - at one point a few years ago she said she didn't want to be buried with him - but this has changed again and now she says she does. But given your DM and DF are still here - this should be a conversation between them two and not have you stuck in the middle having to make a difficult decision.

[LizzieW1969]

It was just a suggestion. Obviously the OP should respect her wishes, as I said.

However, it sounds to me as if the OP’s childhood was toxic, and she’s no doubt feeling a lot of resentment as a result. The real tragedy is that her parents didn’t split up many years ago.

[Nanny0gg]

@LizzieW1969

Maybe the OP’s DM would get a more positive response from her daughter if she asked for her ashes to be spread somewhere that has special significance to her? Instead of simply saying that she doesn’t want to be buried in the same place as her the OP’s DF?

I really don't see why she should be looking for a 'positive response'

Her wishes aren't outlandish so I think if the OP had any loyalty or feelings towards her mother she should honour her wishes

[LizzieW1969]

Maybe the OP’s DM would get a more positive response from her daughter if she asked for her ashes to be spread somewhere that has special significance to her? Instead of simply saying that she doesn’t want to be buried in the same place as her the OP’s DF?

[Allthereindeersaregirls]

I'd honour her wishes. I'd then honour my father's wishes whatever they are. But I don't see a need to visit a grave, do visiting two graves wouldn't be a consideration to me.

[Coronawireless]

What a terrible marriage. I feel sorry for both of your parents. Cremation and ashes scattering is the way. Otherwise your DM is being difficult.

[Trytrytryasimight]

Smile and nod

[PerveenMistry]

Of course you should bury her where she wishes. It's not about your convenience.

[LizzieW1969]

It’s fascinating, how much it matters to people what happens to their body after they die, when they in reality won’t know anything about it. I’ve recently had my DM say something very similar to the OP’s DM. She doesn’t want to be lain to rest along with my F, who died 23 years ago. She wants to be lain to rest in her own parents’ plot. She also wants to be buried under her maiden name, when she’s known to everyone for many years by her married name. This is because since my DSis and I told her about how our F sexually abused us, which she’d previously known nothing about. I think it’s the only way she can ‘divorce’ him when he’s already dies.

Obviously, my DSis and I will make sure this happens. But my DB still idolises the memory of our F and he has serious MH issues. He goes to his grave regularly. So that will be hard to explain to him without telling him the whole truth, most of which he’s completely buried.

The OP’s parents’ marriage must be very bad for her DM to be this bothered about being buried separately from her DH. And this really should be respected.

Although I do think going on about it to the OP (who has a relationship with her DF) is likely to be counterproductive. She’s told her what she wants, now she should lay it out clearly in her will. Hopefully, by then she’ll have left him and built a new life for herself. But her wishes should be respected absolutely.

[Blossomtoes]

@ScotlandUnited

Just think for a moment about what it must be like to be in a marriage for half a century with no financial independence - or indeed independence of any sort

DM wasn't a SAHM for her whole life only part of it. She worked in retail whilst we were at school for a time and factories before she had us. she was also left some inheritance by an aunt of hers although I am not sure how much.

Did you read the rest of my post? It’s not just about money. Have you offered to help her leave? Given her any support? Or just begged her to do it?

How does bringing in a bit of money several decades ago and an inheritance that might be just a few quid confer financial independence?

I feel so sorry for her, not only is she living with an abusive alcoholic, but she’s under the illusion that her daughter is supportive when actually she doesn’t even like her very much. I wish I could help her.

[ScotlandUnited]

Just think for a moment about what it must be like to be in a marriage for half a century with no financial independence - or indeed independence of any sort

DM wasn't a SAHM for her whole life only part of it. She worked in retail whilst we were at school for a time and factories before she had us. she was also left some inheritance by an aunt of hers although I am not sure how much.

[WhenISnappedAndFarted]

I also don't understand why it's such a big deal to visit two graves and by the sounds of it, it hardly sounds like remembering them together will give you a lot of positive memories.

[StillCoughingandLaughing]

As for those who say why not visit two graves - I want to see my parents in the same place. Remember them at the same time. Talk to them at the same time.

Newsflash - they don’t want to be remembered together. Or at least, your mum doesn’t want to be remembered with your dad. What do you think would have happened if she had left him when you ‘begged her to’? That she’d have left, but they’d have still been buried together to suit YOU?

[blubberyboo]

I don’t really get why it would be such a big deal for you to visit 2 graves. How could you visit them together knowing she didn’t want to be there

Certainly you should try to respect her wishes if the grave will hold an extra person.
Get her to enquire about it though as often families discover that their loved ones can’t be accommodated in an existing plot

[ChewtonRoad]

DM has a funeral plan to pay for it so she says and she has a will but has confirmed today that where she will be buried is not in the will. She has threatened tonight to put it in her will if I don't agree to her wishes.

Good for your mum to have a funeral plan in place, but it's a poor idea to put her funeral wishes in her will. Sometimes wills are not read until after a person is buried or cremated, and as your mother has specific intentions she needs to write them down in another document.

My mum had almost every detail of her funeral sorted long before she died, although she left the choice of casket to me and my siblings.

She had obtained a booklet from the funeral directors and wrote down what she wanted, and that is what we followed after she died. The booklet was with her other personal papers, and mum insisted she go over it with us when she wrote it (about 15 years before her death) because she thought it was better to know what to expect than try and sort things out when grieving.

Knowing what we had to do made the logistics of dealing with my mum's death much easier when the time came. Whether we would have chosen X, Y, or Z didn't matter "because mum wanted this or that" and we did as she requested to be respectful of her last wishes.

[GabsAlot]

well like pp said if it isnt in her will and she dies frst her husband as nok will have a say where shes buried not you you cant promise anything

i think you need to make that clear

[Redaska]

In terms of her burial wishes, simply tell her that she needs to pre-arrange it herself. She will then probably find she can't be buried with her parents for the reasons others have said, but it will give her a chance to arrange something realistic that suits her. There is no reason she has to be buried near her husband. If she arranges it herself, your father will have no beef with you about it.

Other than that, don't engage. Their relationship is their business and they shouldn't try to involve you in the warfare.

[ScotlandUnited]

@SatNightFever you make an excellent point and another one who I think has nailed it.

I don't live with my parents, but very close by. DSis is abroad. She did not have a great relationship with DM and DM always said she was relieved DSis moved abroad. DSis is very like DF in personality actually.

The plot has space for 3 people I think. DM owns it.

The way DF is drinking so much and also because he's so accident prone and clumsy - he'll probably die before her. Wonder what she will do. Actually don't know if he has a funeral plan. Will need to find out (without telling him what DM has been saying)

[Blossomtoes]

@SatNightFever

So she isn’t prepared to find the strength to leave him, and instead wants you to find that strength on her behalf after she’s gone. Making you give two fingers to your own dad. Putting you in an awful position at a time of your own grief.

Tell her to do her own dirty work. She is prepared to stay with him ( for familiarity? Income? Fear?) yet expects you to drop the bombshell of ‘splitting up’ after she’s gone .

Back off from being her confidante .

This is so unfair. Just think for a moment about what it must be like to be in a marriage for half a century with no financial independence - or indeed independence of any sort. Imagine what living with an abusive alcoholic does to your self esteem.

We’re talking about a woman in her mid 70s, possibly older who’s been married for almost her whole life. Would you “find the strength” to leave?

I hope she manages to find a way to sort this out, OP, because it’s pretty obvious you’re going to be of no help to her.

[StillCoughingandLaughing]

@SatNightFever

So she isn’t prepared to find the strength to leave him, and instead wants you to find that strength on her behalf after she’s gone. Making you give two fingers to your own dad. Putting you in an awful position at a time of your own grief.

Tell her to do her own dirty work. She is prepared to stay with him ( for familiarity? Income? Fear?) yet expects you to drop the bombshell of ‘splitting up’ after she’s gone .

Back off from being her confidante .

This has to be a wind-up. You’re seriously comparing leaving a 50-year marriage - nowhere to go, potentially no money of your own to do it with - to ‘finding the strength’ to bury a loved one where they actually want to be buried? I’ve read some shit on here in my time, but this...

[Suzi888]

You need to tell her your intentions, at least then she knows she will have to take steps herself.

[CheshireCats]

You should respect her wishes and do as she asks. The thought that you would not because you want to visit their graves together is ridiculous. A complete non reason. It would be her last wish to be buried with her mother and you would go against this for your own convenience in visiting a grave? It is her wish - respect it.