to think most people will work till they're dead and won't see retirement age?

[tugging]

Ok massive generalisation but I see a lot of people talking about how they're 40 or so and have 20 + years before they retire.

As a society, we're more sicker, more stressed and more busier than ever. These things would shorten your life expectancy. I can't imagine working till I'm nearly 70- I'm not even 40 and I'm already knackered! I think I'll be dead before I reach retirement age. I know so many people who have died before 60. They never got to retire and enjoy a work free life.

I know people can retire earlier but not many people have a decent pension that i know of and are forced to work till they're nearly 70 or till ill health.

[HermioneWeasley]

Average life expectancy has significantly increased since pensions and retirement ages were introduced, where you expected to live to mid 70s- about 10 years after you retired. Now average life expectancy is in the 80s, people either need to save more or retire later

[TheABC]

I can see my generation (late 30's) "downshifting", rather than retiring. Myself and DH have already accepted that a traditional retirement simply won't happen for us - we are likely to keep working for as long as health allows, but it's likely to be flexible or part-time jobs, rather than something full-on and stressful. Western countries (and some eastern) are facing a "baby bust" and I don't think it's feasible or fair for our children to shoulder the pensions and healthcare of a massive grey population for 20+ years.

[vivainsomnia]

There’s no doubt that the previous generation had it much better when it came to retirement than the average worker our generation.

However, many people make the choice of working PT, at least for many years as kids grow up, and that will inevitably impact on their pension. It makes sense at the time when childcare costs are wiping a lot of the income, but few think of the impact on their pension because that seems so far away and they believe they still have plenty of time to think about it at a later stage.

As for inheritance, I don’t know many people who have been able to rely on it towards early retirement. Most people live longer. I can imagine my, mum living up to 100, I’ll be almost 80 before I’ll be able to Plath the cash (tongue in cheek of course!)

[MildredPuppy]

@Yawnthisway

I find it really grating when people criticise
An average wage of £31k on a pension of 5% + employer 3% would put away £4K per year. That’s about £120k in a lifetime of work (on the basis they wouldn’t start on that salary) if I retired tomorrow with that pension pot it would get me about £4K per annum. £300 per month. So even with sensible saving etc not enough to live on. And that’s the average wage, half the country earns less than that. So can we not repeat the “avocados on toast” stereotype with pensions? Yes some people bury their head in sands but it’s not as simple as cutting your cloth, the cards are stacked against a lot of people.

This bothers me too. I have paid into a pension since i was 20. I have always paid 8% plus employer contribtions ranging from 3-12% in different jobs. The forecast isnt a huge sum on money that i could live off. Without a state pension i am stuffed.

[vivainsomnia]

TheABC, the thing is you’ve worked FT all your life in stressful jobs, the prospect of working 3 days or even 2 1/2 days in a non stressful job, this is heaven. That’s what I call retirement!

[Iquitit]

Yep.

I exist so someone else can make money off the back of my hard work.
Not even noticeable until I don't have enough to pay bills that still make money for other people, or get ill and can't perform that work.
Not worthy enough to have enough money to make sure I can pay everyone else that's stood there with their hands out, and resented for needing some help to do that.

One set of people tell me how much I'm going to get paid and when, and another set tell me what I'm going to pay and when, and I get to get hounded for the deficit that's left.

People don't matter, individuals don't matter, only business and profit margins matter.

[Cottagepieandpeas]

@Wriggleout

A lot of people seem very clueless about financial matters. I totally agree that it should be on the national curriculum. I'm always a bit when people post that have got no pension at 50 and don't know what they're going to do about it. How does that happen? 30 years of potential working life have passed and nothing to show for it pension wise. If you've chosen not to work that's a different matter - it shouldn't be a big surprise. Teaching financial to all at school would help prevent people ending up like this.

It happens though (not having a pension) and isn't connected to stupidity.
I have a pension now (I'm 52) but didn't start it until I was nearly 40. I had been a lone parent for almost 20 years at that point & had studied & worked part time. I needed every penny I earned and judged that I could not afford to contribute to a pension. I will have to manage on the state pension + small income from my work one, or work until I drop dead.

[Shedbuilder]

Yawnthisway, you're discounting the fact that your pension payments are invested by the pension company and that they grow throughout your working life. Your £124k should be worth at least twice and probably three times as much by the time you retire.

[prettylittlestar]

I agree with this. I'm concerned my husbands job, will be the death of him. Yesterday he was on a zoom call for nearly 3 hours. But from what I hear nothing they talk about is that important! This means he is spending the rest of the evening doing his normal work. It makes me so angry!!

[Zenithbear]

I think people should be able to go part time after 50. I think it's cruel to make people who have already slogged their guts out for decades to carry on until they are at death's door.
After all it is the workers that enable a lot of the non workers to be able to live.
We're both part time and retiring early, we'll be mid 50s but it has taken years of planning and investing to make it possible.

[MildredPuppy]

Yes pensions grow by investment but the cost of living goes up too! I found my council tax bill, electric and so on bills from 15 years ago and all those little 2%, 5% annual increases add a lot.

[irregularegular]

We are not sicker than ever, this is complete nonsense. There has been a steady increase in life expectancy and healthy life expectancy in the UK for decades (and earlier). Yes it has slowed down recently, but it has not gone into reverse. The reason people have to work longer is precisely because of the increase in life expectancy. But the amount of time you can expect to live after retirement is still higher than ever (except in some professions who temporarily got an ultimately unaffordable good deal). There is a shift to more gradual/partial retirement, but I think this is a good thing. For a lot of people their physical and mental health deteriorates quickly soon after retirement as a result of inactivity/lack of stimulation.

[Bibidy]

I think it's likely most people will work well into their 70s, at least.

Mainly because now houses are so expensive that many first-time buyers are in their 30s so will likely still be paying mortgages in their 70s if they have managed to move up to bigger properties.

[TeamMummy]

There's two guys at my work who are both seventy three. They both have paid off houses and good pensions from 20+ years in previous jobs

I think they like the social side of working and they would be bored at home. It's not about the money. They will have to be carried out. I think working keeps them fit, lots of walking. For seventy three they look very healthy, I've seen ppl ten years younger who look older

I will probably have some sort of p/t job at that age to stop the boredom. I have neighbour's who are retired and the highlight of their week is putting the bin out and bringing it back in the second it's been emptied

[lazylinguist]

It's hard to know how it will turn out for us. I haven't been very savvy pension-wise - went part-time when first dc was born 15 years ago, had a couple of years as SAHM, career never got back on track (working on that now). Dh is on a good salary but won't be able to hack his job until retirement (teaching, senior management).

We both stand to inherit a decent amount from our parents (mine have a house worth at least £800K), but who knows what care they might need in the future?

I do feel a bit clueless really, and agree that this stuff ought to be taught in schools. I might have a look at that free Martin Lewis course!

[Zenithbear]

I was talking to a woman who has sah since having her dc in early 30s and never returned to work saying she doesn't want her dh to retire early as he would get on her nerves. Plus she said people can retire too early! The irony.
Her dh is late 50s in middle management and looks fucked.
I thought how kind of you

[vivainsomnia]

We are not sicker than ever, this is complete nonsense
No it isn’t. The number of years we are living with comorbidities is increasing yea on year. This is why the NHS is not coping.

[Mia85]

The ONS has a life expectancy caclulator if anyone is interested www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/articles/lifeexpectancycalculator/2019-06-07 If you are a 40 year old woman it has an average life expectancy of 87 and a one in 4 chance of making it to 96. Of course it doesn't take into account personal circumstances and life expectancy may change over that time but it's fair to say that the vast majority of women in their 40s should expect to live well beyond state retirement.

[vivainsomnia]

I do find it sad that people retire and end up al,OST completely inactive.

OH and I want to retire because there is so much to do in life but work. I want to return to painting, run, play tennis, go cycling, yoga, meditation, meeting up with my numerous friends, cooking, looking after the home, gardening, travelling, photography, so many things to do and enjoy, many at low cost.

[Shedbuilder]

@MildredPuppy

Yes pensions grow by investment but the cost of living goes up too! I found my council tax bill, electric and so on bills from 15 years ago and all those little 2%, 5% annual increases add a lot.

That's why, if you're part of, say the teacher's or nurses or other state-based pension schemes, your pension will go up in line with inflation and why, if you've a private pension that will need to be invested, your advisor will help you structure it so that it also rises by 2% or whatever you choose each year. Many people will spend more money during the first decade of retirement — holidays-of-a-lifetime, flash cars, camper vans, dream kitchens etc (often using their lump sum to finance the expenditure) but once you're into your mid-70s spending tends to go down a bit. These are general trends: obviously there will be exceptions.

[bp300]

@Wriggleout

A lot of people seem very clueless about financial matters. I totally agree that it should be on the national curriculum. I'm always a bit when people post that have got no pension at 50 and don't know what they're going to do about it. How does that happen? 30 years of potential working life have passed and nothing to show for it pension wise. If you've chosen not to work that's a different matter - it shouldn't be a big surprise. Teaching financial to all at school would help prevent people ending up like this.

Not really, a pension is pointless if you are are not a higher rate taxpayer. You many get 20% tax relief in the way in but you will pay it on the way out and there's always a risk the tax on pensions could be increased. It's is very easy to use up your tax free allowance in retirement with state pension plus a little extra income on top. Most people will be best of to invest their money as a deposit for their main residence which they can leverage up and the returns are tax free.

[2bazookas]

Far too pessimistic. Lifespans are longer, health education and healthcare is better than ever before.

So it's just a matter of forward planning. We each had a FT-working parent, heavy smokers who died in the 1970's from heritable cancers where the risk is increased by smoking; they were both 53. Diagnosis and treatment of their diseases was very poor back then (so theirs were caught too late for survival). So for starters, we don't smoke; and we immediately started financial planning to pay of mortgage early and make enough money to retire by 53. Which we did. But even before we retired, we'd wound down to PT work combined with WFH.

Cancer screening, diagnosis and treatment of it, has made huge advances. We both were being screened regularly for the familial cancers, so when we tested positive , we got excellent treatment and have both had and survived the cancers that killed our parents. We're both healthy and fit , have enjoyed 20 years of retirement so far and expect at least another 10. Our kids are in their 40's; and already only work 4 day weeks (following our examples because they saw for themselves what a huge difference it makes to health, fun, etc. They will soon have paid off their mortgages ( THE great financial freedom that makes early retirement doable).

It's all about education, lifestyle, and planning.

[Melitza]

@Mia85 you might as well go to a psychic as use that calculator. 😁

[theemmadilemma]

I turned 45 and I've taken the opportunity to revamp my pensions which I shamelessly didn't really understand much about. Thankfully my joining pensions schemes willy nilly has worked reasonably well so far.

I've really realised this last 6 months that I'd like to spend more doing things I enjoy. So I need more free time. So I want to stop working earlier. I'm now aiming for 60 latest and putting everything I can towards my pension pot.

My only other asset is the house we will in which will be paid off and lived in.

[Iamthewombat]

God, what a depressing thread.

Not just the “I will have to work until I drop dead and that will probably be when I’m 56 and I’m SO TIRED” stuff.

It’s the “when I hit peri menopause my brain turned to jelly and I couldn’t cope with complicated stuff or stress any more” remarks.

That’s certainly not my experience, at 49, and judging by the number of smart, well organised women of my age and older that I encounter professionally, I’m not the exception.

Why sell this nonsense that menopause means the end for a woman’s career? Tell that to Denise Coates of Bet365, or Deborah Meaden, or Jenny Campbell, or Alex Polizzi or Anne Boden of Starling Bank, or any other woman you can think of who is over fifty and still operating successfully in business.