to think most people will work till they're dead and won't see retirement age?

[tugging]

Ok massive generalisation but I see a lot of people talking about how they're 40 or so and have 20 + years before they retire.

As a society, we're more sicker, more stressed and more busier than ever. These things would shorten your life expectancy. I can't imagine working till I'm nearly 70- I'm not even 40 and I'm already knackered! I think I'll be dead before I reach retirement age. I know so many people who have died before 60. They never got to retire and enjoy a work free life.

I know people can retire earlier but not many people have a decent pension that i know of and are forced to work till they're nearly 70 or till ill health.

[Jjlrb47922]

I am one of the lucky ones. As in I'm a sahm. Husband is the earner in our family. I worked for 10 years from age 20-30 so I haven't paid much into the system and I don't have a private pension. (husband does)
I am an only child and my parents are comfortably well off. They enabled us to buy our own modest home mortgage free and I will get their house and investments /cash when they pass away (minus care fees etc). I plan to use this money to live off for the remainder of my life whilst also downsizing our own home to release cash also. This will also enable my husband to retire early if he wishes.
But there are two possible problems.... One... We can't predict my parents future health (they are mid 70s now) and if they require care homes etc that money could be drastically reduced or gone. If that happens I have no back up.
Two.... I will be using their money to live off for the rest of my life so there won't be any left when I pass away and I'll only have a small property meaning my own children won't be getting much of an inheritance although my father does invest 4k a year each for them.
I can see that my life will be lived the opposite way round. Not working in the first half of my life but needing to work in later years

[Mulletsaremisunderstood]

For all the people stating that they will happily work past retirement age in a job they love, surely you can see there is a big difference between choosing to stay in a job you love that pays well, and being forced to keep working as you have no other alternative, even if your health has declined?

I lived in Canada a few years ago, and frequently saw older people (late 60s, early 70's by the looks of it) working in low paid service jobs. I highly doubt they wanted to stay flipping burgers because they enjoyed it, rather they couldn't afford retirement or needed the health benefits.

It was grim.

[Aprilinspringtimeshower]

@Wriggleout

A lot of people seem very clueless about financial matters. I totally agree that it should be on the national curriculum. I'm always a bit when people post that have got no pension at 50 and don't know what they're going to do about it. How does that happen? 30 years of potential working life have passed and nothing to show for it pension wise. If you've chosen not to work that's a different matter - it shouldn't be a big surprise. Teaching financial to all at school would help prevent people ending up like this.

I agree. People, especially women unfortunately, are just not taking saving for a pension seriously. Even £20 a month when you’re young will build up over the long time of your working life. Most of us with decent sh pensions built up haven’t inherit large sums, or benefit from cheap property ( my first house we bought as married couple was when interest rates were at 12% and our mortgage was huge, then we had the whole endowment policy misspelling saga), or had gold plated employees pensions. It comes from putting a priority on saving even little bits and being knowledgable about how saving into a pension is massively tax advantageous etc.

Definitely needs to go on school curriculum as per Martin Lewis’ campaign - every adult should download his course ( its free) and take it- especially women.

The other thing to do is to vote- or join a political party to campaign for increase in NI to provide for a decent living of state pension- but hey folks seem to like voting for a party that increases inequality. Hey ho!

Imho the big scandal is how the governments have pushed pension provisions onto us as individuals carrying the all the risks and stock market variability in personal pension pots, rather then raising taxes equally across the whole population to spread the risk and provide a state managed pension at lower running costs. It is lining theirs and their chums pockets in the investment industry with all the management fees they’re raking in for millions of poorer folks who have been forced to pay into these Gov backed schemes. 1.5% fees is affordable if you have a pot worth £300k, but is a lot for folks with just a pot of £50k.

[Aprilinspringtimeshower]

@Jjlrb47922

I am one of the lucky ones. As in I'm a sahm. Husband is the earner in our family. I worked for 10 years from age 20-30 so I haven't paid much into the system and I don't have a private pension. (husband does)
I am an only child and my parents are comfortably well off. They enabled us to buy our own modest home mortgage free and I will get their house and investments /cash when they pass away (minus care fees etc). I plan to use this money to live off for the remainder of my life whilst also downsizing our own home to release cash also. This will also enable my husband to retire early if he wishes.
But there are two possible problems.... One... We can't predict my parents future health (they are mid 70s now) and if they require care homes etc that money could be drastically reduced or gone. If that happens I have no back up.
Two.... I will be using their money to live off for the rest of my life so there won't be any left when I pass away and I'll only have a small property meaning my own children won't be getting much of an inheritance although my father does invest 4k a year each for them.
I can see that my life will be lived the opposite way round. Not working in the first half of my life but needing to work in later years

I would be insisting that my DH pays into a pension pot for me...have you discussed this ...if you are supporting him and the kids, he needs to cover for your future too, to just now

[rookiemere]

@Mulletsaremisunderstood we saw this at Disneyworld about 10 years ago. Fairly elderly people manning the booths and the photo shops and struggling with the technology. I told DF about it as he is American by birth and he said he thought they might be doing it because they enjoyed it. Clearly not the case they were doing it because no alternative.

[osbertthesyrianhamster]

YANBU. The entire concept of 'retirement' was never 30+ years of economic inactivity in comfort. It was always intended with the belief that a great many would not live to see that age. It's an unsustainable paradigm.

[thepeopleversuswork]

Please God.
I would much rather drop dead on the job than retire. Can't think of anything worse than 20 years of retirement. Brain-addling hell. No thanks.

[MildredPuppy]

I think people will keep going until health stops them and obviously if you are doing something hard, health will stop you earlier.

The issue with people working longer is that there arent enough jobs to go round and theres only so late you can make youngsters enter the workforce. Its already shifted from 16 being normal to 21. I also think society is particularly agest against women so you may want to work in your interesting role you have expertise in but you may be managed out as irrelevant whether you like it or not.

[StayingHere]

It's impossible to know but I get what you're saying. My state pension age is 68 now - my DM is this age and would struggle to be working.
I'm a teacher and whilst I quite like it now (in my 30s) there's no way I'd have the energy to be in the classroom and do a good job in my 60s. I am working full time now and contributing to my decent TPS in the hope that I can still access that around 60 (ten years before whatever state pension age is then). As for living long enough to see it - who knows! My grandma is 94 and my great grandma lived to 96. My uncle, however, died at 59 and my FIL at 63. You just don't know what is round the corner and how long you have.
I had my DC earlyish in my late twenties so I hope that they will be fully fledged adults by the time I'm 60 (if I get there) and I can do at least some kind of semi-retirement.

[LongPauseNoAnswer]

I got scared into starting my own business when I saw the projections for what I thought was a healthy corporate salary. It was shocking. That amongst other things spurred me on.

I’m 41 now and could retire tomorrow because of my business but I love what I’m doing so I don’t think I’ll ever stop.

[Aprilinspringtimeshower]

@SelkieBe

Well, i was never clueless. But i was and am a single parent. I was on benefits. Im working now and contributing to what will be a small pension and i will keep doing so until 67.

Clueless wasnt the problem!! I always worried about it but i was more specifically powerless, broke, with bigger more immediate fish to fry....

I agree that folks in your situation have been left high and dry. Hence why the focus onto individual pension pots rather than state pension is outrageous imho.

[Ylvamoon]

We are mid 40's. House is paid off. Kids are mib teens. Our 20's and 30's were spent on earning money to build up assets. Only one small regret: we didn't make the most of cheap flights/ holidays ... which are gone now.
We can afford one decent holiday and odd luxury now (pre covid-19) and generally enjoy life. We also pay into our pension and hope to reduce working hours when we hit 60 drawning on pension until state pension age.
Only time will tell if we have done the right thing.

[sHREDDIES19]

I’m hopeful for a healthy future bath of course no one can predict what will happen. My work pension is good, not a fortune but enough for me. Early 60s for me is the plan. My whole life (and my dh) we have been into fitness and being healthy so I’m really hoping that will help us as we get older. Lots of weight bearing exercises, healthy diet, sunscreen all year round and a bit of red wine thrown in! But this is what we enjoy, love feeling fit and able to hike and run places. It’s a massive privilege having a healthy body and one we’ve never taken for granted.

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

My hope is that I can at least afford to consider part time at around the 60yo mark. House will be paid off and kids will be around 30yo so should be pretty self sufficient by then.

Full retirement and the means to fund it myself? Well, that would be a bonus, but my retirement age is 68 so fuck knows if I'll even be well enough to work then.

[drinkingwineoutofamug]

Nhs here. We got screwed over with our pensions . On the old pension I could of retired at 55. No. I will now have to be 69.
I really can not see my self running about after dementia patients at 69.
I'm already looking for a different role.

It was all very well increasing the pension age due to us all living longer , but has that had a knock on effect for the younger generation?
If we are still working , how do they get a job ?

[GnomeDePlume]

I'm mid 50s and can see myself working to 67 but not beyond. Both my DBs are in their 50s and have retired on civil service final salary pensions. Both retired at pretty much the first opportunity and I think it has made them both old before their time.

Both DBs have regretted their decision a bit I think but at the same time now cant face the idea of returning to work.

Most people work until state retirement age. But that only started post war. Going further back most people worked until they couldnt work any longer.

[Melitza]

@osbertthesyrianhamster

YANBU. The entire concept of 'retirement' was never 30+ years of economic inactivity in comfort. It was always intended with the belief that a great many would not live to see that age. It's an unsustainable paradigm.

Exactly what I was coming on to say.
Retirement is supposed to be for when you can't work not when you no longer wish to.

It was early 20th century when state pensions were granted. And of course manual work was prevalent so at 65 men really were more likely to have health issues.
Prior to this the workhouse was the place for those who couldn't manage and I feel sure Boris and Mogg would happily bring it back.

[ChocOrange1]

Retirement was never designed to be 20 years. Our society isn't set up to support people for that long. People in their 60s and over now are the lucky ones, enjoying early retirement, inheritances and long life expectancies. Somethings got to give.

[rookiemere]

I think there needs to be a bit of a change in model.

Like I say I work 4 days a week in my 50s and that seems more sustainable than working full time. If DH retires mid 50s - and I'm trying to persuade him to do a halfway house instead by reducing working days per week - then we may well move, meaning I can't continue in my existing job. What I'd likely do then is look for a lower paid, less stressful role - if such a thing exists.

So we may see the over 60s in retail roles - think B&Q has quite a successful scheme already - but like those who do the role I can't see paramedics, teachers and many other roles being able to keep going at that age.

[Waxonwaxoff0]

Not everyone can afford to pay much into a private pension. Not everyone has the means to go into a well paid career and will work low paid jobs their whole lives.

[Dashel]

There is a movement called financial independence and retire early FIRE, I’m really into that and DH have made a number of financial sacrifices over the years to get into the strongest possible financial position. Including only having one car, living very frugally etc.

Many people in the FIRE community live well below their means in order to make additional payments to pensions and investments so that they can retire as early as possible.

Yes it helps if you don’t have DC and have a large income, but even if you don’t take it to the extreme, there are many interesting ideas and methodology. I think a danger for some of us is that we spend to our means and when we get payrises or bonuses we up our lifestyle, when we save, it is often in order to save like for a holiday, extension or new car.

Hard core FIRE people tend to live on rice and beans and drive an old car and use it as sparingly as possible and budget to within an inch of their life, not because they have to, but because they want to. I’m in the middle ground on this and we live on a lot less than we could, cheapest mobiles, no Sky, food Bill is sensible, no takeaways and meals out are rare, clothes budget is small and only if needed etc

It may sound a little unfun, but we are quite creative and we do travel when we can, but we are expecting to retire at 45 and 55 and neither of us is earning crazy money.

[Triphazard101]

I can see that my life will be lived the opposite way round. Not working in the first half of my life but needing to work in later years

Could you look into going back to work when your children are teenagers/older?
If you worked from age 20-30, would it be feasible to work say 45-55 as well? (Presuming there was suitable employment opportunity?)

[rookiemere]

@Dashel but some people live off rice and beans and drive an old car because they can't afford a new one. Early retirement is still only an option for those that can afford to fund it.

FWIW from our position of affluence we go down a middle path - holidays and days out now because who knows our life expectancy and we want DS to have an enjoyable childhood, but 3 star self catering and sandwiches sometimes so we can plough into pensions.

[Jocasta2018]

I did start to pay into a pension as soon as I started work 27 years ago.
Mental health issues & related decline in earning capacity mean I pay in only a tiny amount each month now but every little helps & if there is still a state pension I shall probably be ok if I'm frugal & downsize.
If there's not a state pension then I'm f**ked.
There will most definitely not be the retirement for me that my parents have enjoyed. Any inheritance is being spent on the best dementia care their money can buy - care that I have chosen for them as PoA for both their finances & health.

[Stuffin]

The concept of only retiring when you can't work though only applies if you don't contribute to a personal pension that you can access earlier than state retirement age.

If you can save then this gives you opportunities before you are unable to work or can access the state pension.

I used to think I would be happy to work full time until then when I was in my 20/30s but thankfully I also saved so now I will retire in a few years and do the things I want to.