To think, without upsetting anybody, we are massively overpopulated on this tiny Island??? What sensible non punitive solutions are there??

[PasstheBucket89]

Its pretty relevant with all the talk about migrant boats, priti patel saying she will make the passage unviable etc she has done some awful things, it makes my blood run cold tbh i doubt she cares about the safety of them in that boats. But, what di we do, and when suggestions are made its often motivated by hate not quality of life issues. And yes, the ageing massively adds to the overpopulation aswell, but what should we do? reasonably? this tiny Island is massively overpopulated, it doesn't benefit anyone to be crammed in like sardines like this, massively effects access to housing, healthcare, education etc, What should the gov do, not adding to the hostile environment??.

[TrainspottingWelsh]

Granted, there are plenty of brownfield sites, second homes and investment properties that could be made use of. But if you used every single one, and provided enough infrastructure to support them, we'd still barely have enough suitable homes for everyone already in the uk.

It's all very well to bang on about unused space, but farmland isn't simply a nice day out or a holiday destination, it does handy shit like food production. Think of it like a giant outdoor Ocado. Or do people think we can level off a few hills and mountains and stick another Milton Keynes on the top of them all?

As for immigration, I imagine many people would be more supportive if greedy employers could be prevented from using excess supply to reduce conditions.

It would also help with asylum seekers if the London centric government actually contributed something constructive. Dumping large numbers of people in already historically underfunded areas with the expectation the residents should spread the miserly pot even thinner, and then bandying round the word racist if anyone objects isn't helping anyone. Except perhaps the south east left wingers so they can congratulate themselves on how liberal they are.

I am torn on the Calais immigrants. On the one hand I can see the logic in wanting to get to the uk, and why it's mainly young males. On the other, when that route gets the desired results quicker than the legal route it encourages more. Potentially fatal for those attempting it, and makes it all the more difficult for the vulnerable women and children still stuck in camps or war zones.

[PasstheBucket89]

Im glad to see most responses arent knee jerk screeching, i wanted to start a genuine and non aggressive conversation about it.

We are overpopulated, im up North, rural and yes its very much overpopulated here sadly, school admissions, gp access is ridiculously hard. and yes i did refer to the ageing population being a considerable cause. Of the disparity of wealth given to the North makes these issues worse.

What really crystallised this for me was listening to a podcast where someone was talking about if the UK did a similar Education model to Denmark, and the other person pointed out but they have a 10th of our population! so its more able.

[Rubytoosday]

Probably not a popular suggestion .... but to return to the original question rather than focus on immigration and refugees, if people really are concerned about overpopulation then what about people here having fewer children?
Or do we only want to restrict a certain type of overpopulation?

[Arthersleep]

@TaxTheRatFarms

I think this is a really important point.
I live somewhere where they built hundreds of houses but no schools or doctors surgery to take the overflow.

Actually, all new developments/housing is required to contribute via a S106 Obligation, towards the cost of infrastructure, including hospital, new schools and healthcare and affordable/social housing provision. In addition to which they often contribute new buildings for community use and recreation, including park land. The average developer will make around a 7% profit. It simply wouldn't be the case that 1000s of homes would be built without the contribution to and planning of local infrastructure.

[TheABC]

We are overpopulated, by the standards of most European countries. This is not helped by corruption, cronyism and crap management at the top. We don't really live in a democracy at the moment; it's more like an Old Boys Club kleptocracy.

My solution?

• Kill off the House Of Lords. With over 800 members, it's basically an ego boost rather than a debating chamber. Replace it with a federal chamber with representatives from each corner of the UK.
• Move to a sensible system of voting. FPTP basically devalues everyone's vote in a "safe" seat and inflates it in a swing seat. On top of that, short money funding and winner-takes-all kills off the chance of any new parties getting a foothold. Yes, you can end up with some lunatics in the Commons but it also makes it likely to form a consensus.
• Reform the housing system (especially leasehold) and get rid of right to buy. Allow councils and housing associations to build and keep properties again. This is important as shelter and adapted housing is in short supply and we have a lot of elderly people to keep safe and well. Decent housing and social systems can mean the difference between an extra deacade of good health or repeated hospital admissions.
• Reform tax laws. It's going to happen at some point as the health and pension bull rises.

My bet is that all of the above will happen within the next 50 years, unless Scotland gains independence first (lords will limp on).

[frumpety]

How easy is it to get your children in a good school locally, get a GP appointment

This is a good question ? Why if this country is one of the richest in the world is there such disparity in schools, why are there so few GP's seeing far too many people ? Who is ultimately responsible ?

[atotalshambles]

I am not sure how any democracy can force citizens to have fewer children, and average number of children is currently 1.9 so population would decrease without immigration. We need to look at becoming as sustainable as possible and self-sufficient as possible. In the future ,
the effects of global warming will lead to less potential food imports and we need to plan accordingly.

[Jellycatspyjamas]

I can see why, they can get good, safe housing, free healthcare and a job.

Asylum seekers are put in the worst housing stock available, the cheapest and most overcrowded. During lockdown, asylum seekers in Glasgow were housed in a budget hotel, provided 3 meals a day and had no access to money for essentials. They spent 24 hours a day in a hotel room, with meals provided at fixed times and with no money for additional snacks, drinks or means of entertainment.

Asylum seekers get the princely sum of £37.75 per week to meet all of their material needs and yes do get access to the NHS. They legally aren’t allowed to work, so I’m not sure where these great jobs are coming from.

It’s not a cushy life by any stretch of the imagination.

[blacksax]

[quote imissthesouth]@Serin
I love my garden and spend a lot of time in it with the kids, but parks would be a better option and more environmentally friendly rather than a ton of gardens that mostly get concreted up anyways. Perhaps this is a solution for future housing?[/quote]
Do you have any idea just how many billions of creatures live in our gardens?

The gardens that get concreted over are usually front gardens and are used for parking by multiple-car households. If we had better public transport there would be no need for that many cars.

Gardens soak up millions of tons of water when it rains and help to prevent runoff and flooding. We need to do everything we can to prevent floods.

And what about mental health? Just look at how so many people have taken to gardening during lockdown, and how so many others have suffered because they had no outside private space?

[PasstheBucket89]

People are having fewer children, birthrate is dropping all the time, im on my third but with a 12 yr and 9 year old gap. I don't think we should aim for a concrete island. we need our green spaces.

[YewHedge]

The whole worlds population is shrinking. Especially in countries like ours.


www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53409521

[TaxTheRatFarms]

Arthersleep

Didn’t say thousands though, did I

300 ish houses were built. And a primary school! Except the primary school was built five years after the housing. Still no gp surgery, much to the despair of everyone local and much campaigning.

I don’t doubt that you’re right, and certain procedures should be followed, but they clearly weren’t here. Maybe as the number of houses was smaller?

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

@PasstheBucket89

People are having fewer children, birthrate is dropping all the time, im on my third but with a 12 yr and 9 year old gap. I don't think we should aim for a concrete island. we need our green spaces.

From MN I gathered that it's kind of a lot or none. So birthrate is dropping because more people chose not to have any meanwhile many have 5. One would think it would balance itself.

[TableFlowerss]

@Rubytoosday

Probably not a popular suggestion .... but to return to the original question rather than focus on immigration and refugees, if people really are concerned about overpopulation then what about people here having fewer children?
Or do we only want to restrict a certain type of overpopulation?

I think if that ever did happen, they’d need to stop all immigration point blank, other than highly skilled special fields/shortage areas.

They could dictate to British citizens only two children then keep the flood gates open for every man and his dog and his family members.

I know we’re going down that route soon with Brexit but they’d have to be so stringent

[TableFlowerss]

couldnt

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

Lol at floodgates

[imissthesouth]

@PasstheBucket89
I agree, I live in a northern rural area too (originally from the south near and in London) and its shocking how stretched the GP and healthcare in general is, the system was never designed to cope with this many people. It's sad to think about but the NHS is a failing system. In the (hopefully distant) future, we'll have a privatised system like other countries. Similar with housing, family houses are like a gold mine round here, often the only houses for sale are bungalows from old people who have moved into care.

[frumpety]

@Arthersleep is there anywhere that an ordinary lay person can see the obligations a developer has agreed to during the planning process ? So can see what money is being paid out and where that money is actually going ?
I am thinking in terms of public open space ( is that on the development itself or does it relate to the surrounding area ? ), affordable housing ( what is included in this particular heading and what are the statutory responsibilities if any ? ), Education, Highways, Town centre improvements and Health.

[imissthesouth]

@blacksax
I didn't mean for driveways etc. I mean for people who can't be bothered to mow a lawn or hire a gardener and get artificial grass or slabs put in. If we had larger parks instead, with a park ranger to look after them, people would have somewhere to go for mental health, gardening could be completed on a voluntary basis throughout the community etc. As a PP said though, people in this country overconsume and wouldn't want a house without a garden for instance

[Walkaround]

@Rubytoosday - not having many or any children doesn’t solve existing overpopulation, and it ultimately creates problems for the older members of the population who no longer have a large enough youthful population to help sustain them - and problems for the youthful population whose energy is used up dealing with an elderly, frail demographic. Just think of the modern human race with its life expectancy and quality of life expectations as a giant ponzi scheme - it only works if you are able to keep introducing new members at the bottom and thus keep expanding until everyone realises it’s an impossibility. Not having children gives future generations an old person problem (actually, that’s not a future problem, is it?!).

[Devlesko]

She is the most racist person in government and it's disgusting the way she is allowed to behave.
It's a shame because I would love her to have been a good role model.

[imissthesouth]

@Walkaround is right. People living longer is the main cause of overpopulation. If people stopped having children then the existing population would simply turn to a nation of carers for an even older population

[imissthesouth]

@TableFlowerss
We are going that way with brexit, although it may not be the worst thing for the country. We do need a tougher immigration system. If we only allowed qualified people with a job to go to, to be self sufficient without the use of the public purse, then we would have not only a healthier economy, but also less people coming into the country. The most notable country with this system is Australia

[TableFlowerss]

[quote imissthesouth]@TableFlowerss
We are going that way with brexit, although it may not be the worst thing for the country. We do need a tougher immigration system. If we only allowed qualified people with a job to go to, to be self sufficient without the use of the public purse, then we would have not only a healthier economy, but also less people coming into the country. The most notable country with this system is Australia [/quote]
I absolutely agree. I think it’s a fantastic idea and I’m pleased they’re introducing a points based system. Should have done it years ago!

[DipSwimSwoosh]

Thank you @Thneedville for talking some sense. People do not come here for the benefits. How would they research the benefits system properly before arriving? Do you know how much someone receives when they seek asylum?
The majority who come this far have links to this country. Usually family, or work, language etc.