..to think that state educated kids are going to find themselves at a huge disadvantage in public exams?

[SpiderPlantSally]

Every privately-educated Year 10 or Year 12 child I know - this amounts to six different fee-paying schools - is having a like-for-like learning experience at home with live online teaching, following their usual timetable.

Every state-educated child I know of the same ages (also five or six different schools) is being set written work, with very little or no live teaching. At DD's school there one hour of live Maths for the whole Year 10 cohort each week, and a contact session for the other subjects once per week, when the teachers are available for email contact or chat. That's it. Otherwise lone book work.

AIBU unreasonable to think that state school pupils will be at a huge disadvantage when applying for selective 6th forms and universities in the autumn? Surely the private school pupils will absolutely clean up on the top grades in next summer's GCSEs and A-levels?

I'm really not blaming teachers from not doing online learning, btw. I was a teacher myself. In DS's friend's case, the school simply do not have the tech infrastructure to support it. They couldn't suddenly upgrade their entire IT system and provide new equipment overnight, thanks to decades of underfunding.

OP, it’s not as simple as private versus state as some states are doing a great job.

However, some are putting in bare minimum and apparently that is just something that the students will have to suck up. It’s appalling.

Those kids who are being spoonfed schoolwork for hours a day will possibly have a certain advantage over children who are getting less one to one work, but the kids who take the work sent them by school and are sufficiently self motivated to do their own work even when a teacher isn’t standing over them watching everything they do will always have the advantage, whether they are state or privately educated. Beyond school, a self-reliant can-do attitude will get you much further than a particular school on your CV. There is a whole group of kids out there right now learning that self-reliance as a result of following their studies whilst being at home.

Yes.

And there are going to be wide variations between state schools, too.

It won't end when children 'go back', either.

Basically, as a rule of thumb, the more economically deprived the cohort, the harder a school is going to find it to balance safety with educational provision.

So much will come down to space, being able to provide on-line learning, being able to afford tech (in school and at home), being able to pay extra staff.

It's not the fault of the schools, the teachers, or the children.

The government hadn't provided the funding to close the gap. Or the acknowledgment that such a gap will exist.

My child's year 12, in a (good) state school. She has friends in the independent sector. The difference is already quite stark.

And I know that independent schools are struggling. The ones who are providing outstanding solutions have been driven to provide that or close. It's that simple.

But two immediate advantages they already have are:

• a cohort who (by definition) are in economically advantaged homes, often with adult support

• smaller class sizes.

Those two advantages are huge. State schools have to juggle larger numbers of children and fewer specialist staff - that immediately means fewer teaching hours and/or being taught by non-specialist staff at secondary level.

And they are limited by what provision they can offer - both now and when the children 'go back'.

For example, some independent schools are having half a class in and live-streaming a lesson to children at home, then alternating groups.

But many primaries, and even secondaries, cannot do this in the state sector because they know a significant, if not all, their cohort do not have a personal laptop/phone/computer or supervising adult.

I mean: could your home provide that at primary? At secondary?

So, yes: inequality is going to be made far worse by this. And it will be an issue come exams.

It's not the fault of schools, teachers or children, though.

🤷‍♀️

state schools are providing online lessons

A few. In the main the provision is lacking or inconsistent and patchy across the country. Overall it is down to the individual school and there is no overall coordination.

I also think saying 'but some kids don't have laptops' is a moot point. Even when schools are running normally, some children do not have educationally minded parents who buy them books, read to them etc. But we don't stop normal provision because unfortunately some children don't have the same opportunities available to them at home.

That is not a reason to do nothing.

Our secondary school is doing no live or video lessons. Apparently there are safeguarding concerns. They're sending out some written work. I don't see why there are safeguarding concerns for some schools but not others.
We're in Scotland, and the worst thing is that the government is now talking about not holding exams next summer

There will of course be some great state schools with live lessons every day, good timetabljng, lots of access to teachers etc. and some shit private schools who send practically nothing. But on average I think you’re correct.

I’ve been shocked at how many state school teachers seem to think a load of worksheets in an online portal is a substitute for actually teaching and engaging with pupils. I get that it’s not how they’re used to working, but considering that normally they manage to prepare classes AND stand up in front of pupils for 4-6 hours per day you’d think they’d find time to video call those same classes for at least a couple of hours per day...

E.g. Sutton Trust found only 19% state
Primary children had engaged in online daily tuition versus 51% private

No-one's 'doing nothing', Catherine, nor are they suggesting doing nothing.

(1) it doesn't have to be zero/sum - it could be nuanced: acknowledgement of the issues and a response. Funding; re-introducing the old part 2 of the 'A' level paper, with a choice of topics, thus allowing a narrowing of the base of knowledge, whilst demonstrating grasp of skills and concepts - sand for GCSE. Not ideal - but 'something'.

(2) Actually, yes, schools do make provision for inequality and lack of resources.
Many schools give children packs of resources, such as pencil, ruler, pencil case & any personal items from home aren't allowed in school. Why? Because significant numbers of their cohort have none of those things and it's the only way to deal with the inequality.

• other schools can set no homework requiring scissors, ruler, pencil because those things may well not exist in the home.
• in this pandemic, some schools have had teachers driving around to houses, delivering work, because they really, really can't deliver on-line learning - they'd be putting it on a platform their students can't access.
• other schools are struggling to reach many of their students at all.

The inequality is real.
The idea that anyone is 'doing nothing at all'. Or even considering it, is such a dead cat - aimed at making the inherently complacent or insidiously grabby feel good about looking the other way.

It's not just exams op but just generally. Luckily neither of my dc are in important years because they have had the very bare minimum for week.
Particularly awful at the primary school.
The level of provision is not something I'd be happy giving out myself.
I don't expect slick operations, on line all the time and so on.
But I cannot fathom why our ps has not been able to either print out weekly work sheets and or, email them to us?

We had this big expectation of being given' 'work packs that teachers were working hard to prepare' '.

It was a blank excersise book and a maths work book

Other schools around us have managed to give out weekly learning packs.
Ours is a middle class area, the school is far from deprived. It's well supported by the parents. It's been a bizzare situation to say the least.

No learning interaction whatsoever. Repetitive worksheets, and a welfare check once per week.
I know teachers are on their knees, but this is not acceptable for more longer.

See how low my expectations are.

I'd be grateful for some work sheets for ps child.

Secondary child has had lots of homework but very very poor contact with her teacher.

This is why the government should have prioritised getting years 10 and 12 back asap and not faffed around with year 6. They really should be going back next week.

I have been impressed with the leadership in my school. We are teaching Zoom to all year group (secondary) with online portal for a mission and marking of work -mostly typed but some writing in books and photographing. Motivation is good. No penalties of children do not submit work before the next lesson other than some who are lazy even in normal circs being sent reminders.

The Year 11s who would have been doing GCSEs have started the A level course so will have a three month start over others. We are teaching those who are leaving as well as those incoming from other schools (who are almost all state do are getting a term FOC).
The Year 12s doing normal timetable snd in fact getting note teaching as their exams delayed to September.
The Years13s would have left by now have a special program designed to set them up for their university life (hoping that happens) and also mentoring Year 10s) as we did not want them to feel cast adrift at a time they cannot even socialise properly with their friends.
I'm really proud of what my school is doing and sad that many others have not seen it as an opportunity for innovation and creativity rather than an excuse to down tools.

State school children will be advantaged in life though through the additional resilience and adaptability they will learn through this crisis, without the cushion of wealth.

I never said nothing was being done anywhere. I made the point that provision was scatty and that the argument 'some children don't have laptops' as justfication for making no online provision in the current situation for those who do, was invalid.

My aunt is a teacher and I myself have picked up stationary for her from poundland myself. Including plastic gloves and paper plates for science demos

I don't see what that has to do with many children having to settle for worksheets at best now.

I have taught in both the private and state sector. Without any doubt, I found the private easier in terms of classroom management. Work is the same but more enjoyable with an engaged class. the difference I imagine now, is not down to the teachers but the Heads of department and SLT who, in a private school, will have been organising all of this to make sure it works.

That, in my mind, is the difference. Nothing to do with teachers as such - more policy level stuff from up top.

Just thought I'd add that in.

I agree that parent engagement is the biggest issue. I am a state primary teacher and don't do any live teaching but do set online work that I can mark and do video lessons. 80% of my pupils are doing nothing. Part of this may be lack of access to technology, although I do provide offline activities too and my video lessons are YouTube links that nearly all of them can access.

The parents I have spoken to have said their children are not doing the work because "they don't want to". Even leaving aside access to technology, their parents are unable or in some cases unwilling to engage them. It's a huge problem that live lessons wouldn't solve. It would be great for the 3 or 4 pupils that would regularly log in but they are the ones who are working anyway. What use is an online lesson when 90% of the cohort aren't there?

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate

state schools are providing online lessons

A few. In the main the provision is lacking or inconsistent and patchy across the country. Overall it is down to the individual school and there is no overall coordination.

I also think saying 'but some kids don't have laptops' is a moot point. Even when schools are running normally, some children do not have educationally minded parents who buy them books, read to them etc. But we don't stop normal provision because unfortunately some children don't have the same opportunities available to them at home.

That is not a reason to do nothing.

But laptop access is a huge issue. Ok, you provide online lessons for whatever percentage do have it, but what happens next year when they are going to have to cover the material from these lessons again as there were others in their class who weren't able to access it at the time?

Our state primary has said they are not doing any live lessons because not every one has the tech to support this. We are just getting a bunch of written set tasks. I agree OP, kids in state schools are going to be disadvantaged. We better go back in sept otherwise there's no hope....feel so sorry for these poor children who are losing out on their education.

OP you will just get told the kids are old enough to learn by themselves and they don't need teachers.

DS is having timetabled lessons for two subjects and work set for the third. Unsurprisingly he feels ok about the first two and rubbish about the third.

As for access, I have said this before on here but I see no reason why the sessions cannot be recorded to be accessed by the pupils at other times if they can't log on at the timetabled time.

I often listen to recordings on my phone and go for a walk. If I can do that, why can't a 16 year old listen to a recorded GCSE lesson?

Very few GCSE/A level students have no access to a device at all. My ds doesn't actually know anyone without a smartphone (except for DH!)

OP that’s not true my children are years 10 & 12 in a state school and have had a normal timetable from day 1 - live lessons, tutor time, assemblies etc etc

It seems clear that there will be no return to school on a full-time basis for anyone in the foreseeable future. What I would like to see to remedy this is:

1. Laptops to be provided to all those DC currently without

1. Suitable workspaces available at places like libraries and community centre for those who lack study spaces at home

1. A full programme of online classes designed to replicate as far as possible the in school experience for the time each week where DC are at home

1. Teaching unions being put on notice that if they refuse to co-operate with the above, private tutors and overseas teachers will be brought in to replace some current teaching staff

I totally agree with all of that @HakeFish