AIBU to be worried about the next Refugee crisis

[Gin96]

The numbers are starting to accelerate again, the poor people stuck in Greece camps but people from the EU have lost interest, I wonder how this is going to end? Will the EU open the borders again?

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/jan/16/catastrophic-conditions-greet-refugees-arriving-on-lesbos

[AdaKirkby]

interesting development:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/30/greece-plans-to-build-sea-barrier-off-lesbos-to-deter-migrants?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[AlexGS]

Pakistan... £300m a year foreign aid bill

Why do you keep mentioning this? We also spent £35.5 million on a bridge in London that was never built. I don't think money given to a country for counter terrorism operations and basic education is the biggest of our worries! How much have we spent on HS2 and other things?

Also, how does the media keep mentioning that we are racist?

[ExEUCitizen]

Why do people still want to come here? and similar comments from op. Two main reasons - one the primacy of the English language and the international links forged by the former British Empire. We are paying th price for our ancestors as usual. Second, news does not get around about international conditions very quickly. IME most people in the West seem to operate on stereotypes about other western countries based on expectations of about 50 years ago. I'd guess it's worse in the commonwealth countries. The common expectation of the west is that its streets are paved with gold, helped along by the projected experiences of the well-off citizens here who still seem to believe the same thing. Nothing to do with Britain being better than France and Europe, as you seem to imply op, which it ain't.

[Xenia]

There is a Dublin Regulation in the EU I believe which says some can be sent back to the firt EU country in which they arrived.
By the the Commons has now passed the withdrawal bill which goes to royal assent now and EU/UK sign the agreement so probably will be leaving on 31 Jan 2020 but are still currently wthin the Dubiln rules.

(I have nothing against Pakistan - it is just the £300m a year foreign aid bill is quite high from the UK to there. I have issues with our foreign aid going to countries like India too which has its space programme - it is so rich these days too. I think we should concentrate aid on the UK).

[5zeds]

I think we should focus on our own response. We have very little say in what other countries do/say and will have even less once our exit is complete.

[Gin96]

The EU need to start thinking of another process for refugees and migrants. The rest of the EU need to step up and take there quota, including the Uk.

euobserver.com/migration/147227

[AnnieTotach]

@Xenia
"Lots of them are not under the law asylum seekers but instead economic migrants,"

Actually, that's a complete lack of understanding of the law. Anyone who applies for asylum is, by definition, an asylum-seeker until their status is determined. Anyone is entitled to undergo a refugee status determination procedure. You don't get to say whether someone from Iran or Pakistan is or is not a bona fide refugee - that's what the refugee status determination procedure is for. It is entirely feasible that a national of Pakistan or Iran could have reason to flee their home due to human rights abuses e.g Christian in Pakistan or dissidents in iran.

If an asylum seekers claim is successful, that person has been determined to be a refugee and entitled to international protection. Conversely, if a claim is unsuccessful, then that person is, legally, not a refugee nor an asylum seeker and can legitimately be deported

Furthermore, the legal status of a refugee, as per the 1951 convention of whcih the UK is a signatory, is entirely linked to the reasons that they had to flee their homes and not whether they sought protection in a neighbouring country or decided to seek protection further afield. Refugees do not have to stay in the first country they arrive in in order to be considered a refugee.

Additionally, since you are concerned about the economic burden, why don't you lobby the home office to allow asylum seekers to work? The vast majority want to work to support themselves and their families but are forced to live off benefits.

[Gin96]

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-50330297

[Gin96]

What happens to all the thousands of refuges/migrants in France,over a thousand are homeless in Paris and get no help? What will happen if we have another 1,2,3 million refugees come to Europe, where are they going to go, every country seems to be shutting their borders?

[Gin96]

Interesting article but what happens to the thousands of refugees that Germany turn away? Where do they go,are they sent back to the original country say Greece they first arrived in?

[5zeds]

This might explain WHY some refugees want to come here

care4calais.org/the-refugee-crisis/do-refugees-want-to-come-to-the-uk/

[5zeds]

@Xenia do you have a particular problem with Pakistan? I’m baffled as to why you are so focused on them???

[Gin96]

They still must be very desperate to cross the channel, some can’t even swim. I wouldn’t want to cross the channel in a small boat, with to many people in. The channel is a lot different than crossing the Med.

On another note, do Germany send migrants back to Greece?

[Xenia]

Lots of them are not under the law asylum seekers but instead economic migrants, particularly those in France or Greece who are in a safe country. They will not be feeling shooting by French policeman in Paris for example. A lot of them from Pakistan are economic migrants. We give £300m a year to Pakistan in foreign aid so already do our bit for that country despite how it treats women and those who choose to cease to be muslim.

There are two issues - we don't have facilitities for everyone who wants to come and secondly and separately some of those coming are not asylum seekers but in reality economic migrants who could have applied from their home state for entry here rather than coming in illegally and trying to do it that way through the back door.

[Gin96]

So when Germany denied 1000s migrants residency to Germany, where are they going? Do they then try and get to the UK? Are they deported or do they manage to escape to another country in Europe?

[UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe]

Link for the above ^
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Iranian_protests

[UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe]

Alles Do you think refugees can’t come from Iran? Do you... not know what’s going on in Iran??
The protests last/this year resulted in 1500 deaths. If you were against their Islamic regime, would you feel safe staying there? Or in neighbouring Islamic countries?

”The Iranian government-employed tactics to shut down the protests including a nationwide internet shutdown and, according to Amnesty international, shooting protesters dead from rooftops, helicopters, and at close range with machine gun fire. According to the residents, as reported by the New York Times, the government forces then proceeded to confiscate the bodies of the dead protesters and truck them away to mask the true casualty count and scale of the protests. Amnesty International wrote that the families of murdered protesters were threatened by the government from speaking to the media or holding funerals.[25][26] The government killed 1,500 Iranian citizens.”

[5zeds]

but when you realise that they are from Iran and Pakistan, for instance, then they are not refugees.
Because no asylum seeker has ever originated in those countries???? Because no one is in fear of their life there? Where are you getting this information?

[AllesAusLiebe]

France isn't bad and the rest of Europe certainly isn't hostile to refugees. Often they want to go to where their families are. Not difficult to understand, but when you realise that they are from Iran and Pakistan, for instance, then they are not refugees. This is the problem in Germany and we are deporting 1000s of people every year (when things work correctly, which they often don't) because they are not refugees but people who think that they will get a better standard of life in Europe. They've already left everything and are in French camps. They have nothing to lose because Europe cannot find a way to unify and solve the problem.

[Gin96]

Like I said France and Europe must be pretty bad for refugees to choose to cross the channel in winter.

[5zeds]

www.safepassage.org.uk/email-mp-family-reunion?fbclid=IwAR0TdI7NdBOpXepQKDWmaRG2O14z-A7XA1f3tYgM8k6GMmyJ_RWyLgaGr_4

If you do want refugee children to be given safe haven here in the UK, this might help.

[5zeds]

Generally people don’t run towards conflict so why would they turn round and go back to France?

I believe the french police removed all the tents/bedding/possessions yesterday or the day before so miserable became even colder and more vulnerable. What can they do?

[Gin96]

They must be desperate to cross the channel in winter in a small boat. One man tried to swim across with a self made life jacket out of plastic bottles. Things must be bad in France. Not one refugee tries to go across the channel from the UK to France in a small boat though.

[5zeds]

I would imagine most refugees who are really focused on being here, are so because they have family here or some other connection.

[UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe]

And once again

when you’re being smuggled/trafficked out of a country you get little to zero say in where you’d like to go. It’s not a sodding package holiday