Is SIL so desperate to upsize she's unintentionally conning MIL out of money - venting but very worried too

[being40]

My MIL has just come back from a holiday with her daughter (SIL).
My FIL passed away in December 2018.
MIL is still very much grieving. She has been with FIL 54 years. He was ill and she nursed him at home.
MIL lives 3 hours drive from us and 1.5 hours from SIL how we until FIL got sick it was DH and myself and our DC who spent every holiday with them. SIL not estranged from MIl just didn't see her as much.
That's the background.
MIL is staying at ours and told us that she was thinking of selling up her flat and helping SIL buy a 'much bigger house' and moving in with them.
It turns out plan was mentioned by SIL on holiday as MIL is feeling really bored and very lonely and unhappy (understandable).
But the plan is way more advanced and SIL put her house up for sale as soon as they got back and has just had an offer. MIL says sale could take months (when DH and I said she might need to think about it).
We are very concerned that SIL didn't even call DH to mention plans. They used to be close but since SIL married her DH she 'ghosted' both DH and I.
Oh and MIL has told us she wants to pay for us to have an extension so she can move in with us the rest of the time she is not at SIL.
Other warning signs to me: SIL selling propert for £650k and buying a £1.7m one. They are in late 40s so her DH is taking in a huge mortgage and they want to turn garden of property they have found and put a offer on (already) into glamping site.
Not much I can do but same thing happened in my family and didn't end well.
Just venting really and wanting to be supporting of grieving MIL.

has anyone done the basic maths?

what sort of house does MIL have to sell that helps to fund SIL new 1.7million estate, provides a considerable lumps sum to OP for a granny annexe and enough for her to live on for the rest of her days??

Surely spelling that out to MIL is the best place to start?

Of course it would Drogosnextwife in terms of if she needed care or support later, or in terms of if that meant one of her dc gained all the benefit from sale of her house and the other nothing.

Yes, totally up to the house owner what they state in their will, but they need some advice to make sure they are going in to it with both eyes open.

Don't think that would make for harmonious family relationships Drogo.

DM moved in with us - we extended (at our cost) so she had her 'Granny flat', and lived with us for 14 very happy years.

We always discussed our plans with my DB, and when we lost Mum, everything she had was divided equally between all of her grandchildren. Wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

I know talking isn't always easy - DH's sister seems to think that her Mum's money is actually hers, and can't understand that any interest DH shows in his mother's care is not financially motivated.

I don't get some people. Everyone's motivation should be the welfare and well-being of the older, vulnerable person they care about.

Woah, hang on, the phrase "dumping people in homes" is really judgemental. There are lots of cases where care can only really be provided in that setting. And plenty where the family involved are very loving and caring.

Thank you. I too found that phrase highly insulting.

We also lost our FIL last year too, we were told not to make any big changes in any of our lives including MIL for at least a year as we are still grieving and are not in the right frame of mind to do anything.

This is 100% right.

If I made a plan with my own mother, I wouldn't expect to run it past my dB and his wife as it would be none of their bissiness.

It would be their business, as it would also be your db's mother (and potentially impact him in the event of their being any inheritance in the future).

DingDongDenny has it.

My money is she wants to palm MIL off on you so you can play carer for her mother while she enjoys living it up in her glamping mansion...

I'd be saying that's fine but you won't need an extension if she'll be living with SIL for 90% of the time. She can just stay on a sofa bed or something when she comes..

Remove the possibility of being landed with all the responsibility and 5% of the money.

callme yes, feel free to be insulted but
i've seen this happen ALOT, the relatives put the elderly person into a home then don't bother to visit, send cards or phone up about their welfare, i've known of several who had tobe practically begged to visit as their 'loved one' was very poorly but there would always be excuses as to why noone could visit. some people are scum.
having said that most relatives are very good and caring.

Your husband needs to sit down and talk with mil and sil. Ask them where the money is going? Also where is she going to live permanently? If they say half at yours and sil's then you have to explain that you're not going to do that. Because as she grows older, her needs will change, she ll probably need a carer or private home. Tell her she'll need money for these things as a free home is not the same. If she says with sil, then you have nothing to say. She can do what she likes.

Unless you and your dh particularly want your MIL to move in with you, just say no now and make sure she understands that is not an option.

What she does with her money and who looks after her in her old age is up to her. She can either live with SIL or go into a nursing home.

It could be a con, it could just be badly thought-through but either way it would be entirely sensible and proportionate for you or DH to say to MIL 'Something like this turned out badly in our family, please don't agree to anything before you and SIL's family have taken legal and financial advice together, and planned what will happen under this arrangement if you need long-term care'

It will be in SIL's interest for them to do that as well, and if she refuses to take advice, that's a big warning sign right there.

It's not uncommon for people to want to move in your mil's circumstances. My suggestion is that you gently suggest that your mil explores the options available to her eg a flat in a community of older people, a house nearer to her kids (perhaps in between) or a proper annex at one of your properties. If the latter is the desired choice and your sil is willing then it can be a good option and it sounds like she wants to hand over part of the house sale money to your, partly so you can host her easier but also I suspect because she sees it as a good thing to do with money. Try to get all the facts before jumping to conclusions

Much too soon for MIL to think about making such a big decision. All the advice about not making any major changes soon after a bereavement are spot on. She needs to give herself time to grieve and adjust to living on her own before making such a huge decision.

I would be very happy if my SIL arranged for my MIL to go and live with her. It's fabulous - trying to care for an elderly parent as they age in their own home is tricky, even if they live very very close to you. God i'd be so so happy if another of my generation offered to have my ILs or DPs.

The only thing i'd ask is about that sounds odd is the proposal of an extension for you, i'd just check with her that her SILs new house will definitely be MILs proper full time home too and that she won't be expected to move out at any point.

If MiL should later need residential care because of general frailty or dementia (yes, there are very good care homes out there) and there was not enough of her money left to fund it, this sort of arrangement could well be seen as deprivation of assets. Councils take a very dim view of this, and SiL could be required to pay the money back.

As for 'dumping people in care homes' , I've never known anyone who's gone down this route without a great deal of soul- searching, and it's nearly always because the person now needs 24/7 care, by which I mean someone on hand all day, all night, 365 days a year.
Which, with the best will in the world, is often impossible to provide in an ordinary home, especially if relatives still need to work.

Why do people think they have any say to what their parents may give them in inheritance? If the parent want to be unfair and give more to one child that isn’t nice but neither is plotting what you may or may not get before someone is even dead! That’s the theme on this thread “it could impact your inheritance” so? That is up to the MIL what she gives and doesn’t give. If she wants to move in with her daughter I don’t see why it concerns you at all

There used to be a rule of thumb that the widow or widower shouldn't make any major changes until at least a year after being bereaved.

I don't think this will end well and if you can convince your MIL to wait before making such a life-changing decision you will be doing her a favour.

If MiL should later need residential care because of general frailty or dementia (yes, there are very good care homes out there) and there was not enough of her money left to fund it, this sort of arrangement could well be seen as deprivation of assets. Councils take a very dim view of this, and SiL could be required to pay the money back.

Yes yes point this out to SIL. This could be the thing that stops her in her tracks.

It would be their business, as it would also be your db's mother (and potentially impact him in the event of their being any inheritance in the future).

Jesus, that's all anyone ever thinks about on here, inheritance.

Inheritance is a privilege, not a right. If my mother decided to make a decision about her assets while she was still of sound mind, then no it wouldn't be anyone else's business. If she decided to move in with my brother, it wouldn't be my business because her money wouldn't be mine while she is still alive, she can do whatever she pleases with her money without me or my brother putting a stopper on it, because we are worried that it might mean we get less money when she kicks the bucket!

We did this. Sold up, mum sold up, and we bought a larger place together with a ready made granny annex type thing. It was lovely. Mum lived with us (or we with her) until she died, and she died with me dh and dd at her bedside, dd holding her hand. Peaceful and lovely.

I did spend quite a lot of time with my parents after I'd moved out of the family home; my sibings and I went 'home' for Sunday lunch almost every week, so we all knew we got on well enough. That went on for years, really about 30 years, seeing our parents and each other pretty much weekly because we WANTED to.

I can see that you're worried because that is not the habit of SIL, and she and mil have not spend a great deal of time together until this holiday. Sometimes things just happen. Maybe they discovered that they do actually like each other, understand each other, that they gel, etc.

I don't think it's really your business or indeed your dh's, what two adullts choose to do. I can see that you have some valid concerns and I think the advice for your dh to contact both MIL and SiL tot alk it over is good.

Have seen this happen in immediate circle, except it was friends DB and SIL who did the same. Bought huge house with friend’s MIL’s proceeds of sale of house. Then her “needs were too much” and then put her straight in a nursing home. Very sad

It's a bit insulting to think your MIL is so incompetent, she's unable to make her own decisions.

It's been nearly a year since her DH passed so this isn't like it's a rash decision and she sat there and told you what she was doing.

I think you're more worried about what you're going to get.

It's her money. She doesn't have to discuss it with anyone. She doesn't have to give it to anyone.

Apparently this was already discussed between her and her DD.

And making accusations against your SIL because of one anecdote you experienced is not very nice either.

I would stay out of it.

Eek . The real key here is if your MIL goes ahead then what’s her legal and financial interest in the property . Strongly suggest she sees a solicitor to go through the implications particularly in respect to her own needs . I can’t see two people running a glamping business necessarily having the time or inclination to provide / fund her care . She needs to protect her investment or at least be aware of the risks to her of having no say .