Brother’s Wedding

[VitaSackville]

I want to know if anyone else would be upset by this admittedly first world problem. Most friends agree with me but a couple who significantly know my brother as well don’t. I want unbiased opinions. My brother eloped last week.
A year ago my mother was cooking for our very small extended family something she does a couple of times a year. My brother WhatsApped asking me if I could arrange a babysitter. Was I unreasonable to ask why?
He hummed and haad and I began to worry he had something serious to discuss. He reassured me and asked about babysitter again when I said I couldn’t he suggested my husband stay at home. Again I was puzzled and refused. It was all a bit odd. Half an hour later he rings me and says he wants to announce his engagement. I totally admit that my first thought was how can a 9, 7 and 5 year old get in the way of an engagement announcement and to my regret didn’t congratulate him. Anyway he actually tells family by ringing them all before meal to which sister-in-law does not turn up. My husband overheard brother telling cousin that they had wanted to hijack mother’s meal to make a thing of it but Vita wouldn’t play ball. They wanted to marry before she moved to another part of country for a year.
We love sister-in-law she transformed brother’s life. When we see her she is the life and soul of the party. They are both studying for a top profession and are broke. Dad gave them £5,000 as a contribution to wedding.
We went on holiday and my cousin rings up to say she was invited to wedding but her fiancé wasn’t. Did I think she could offer to pay for him? We returned home and it turns out my husband and children weren’t invited either. I couldn’t believe it.
Mum and Dad intervened. Brother’s explanation was it was a quick wedding before they moved for sister-in-law’s training and they just wanted family and significantly a few friends and had a limited budget. Were we unreasonable to be upset? My dad said he wouldn’t go and they cancelled the wedding. I did not encourage Dad to do this. All through this brother was nice to me and didn’t blame me. My sister-in-law however made a barbed comment that in future she was going to run by any decision she made by my husband as clearly His feelings are more important than her’s.
Well they’re married now. I want advice about whether I could have behaved differently and how to move forward. My parents are devastated. My sister-in-law’s mother who we have never met returned the cheque but Dad won’t cash it.

So as I understand it, your brother wanted to use a family get together to announce his engagement but wouldn’t say so to you so you, understandly, we’re about him asking you leave your kids and dh at home and uninvite then from an event you always go to. That’s on your dh, he should he dropped heavier hints.

They arranged a wedding but didn’t invite people from your immediate family but did invite friends. They should have known that’s highly inflammatory!

Your dad then massively overreacted and the wedding was cancelled. That’s on your dad.

They then eloped. Nice for them but they can’t be surprised your mum is devastated.

So over all your dad was in the wrong. Everyone else has bumbled along with the limited info they’ve had. Your brother and sil should have known cutting people out would cause problems and been upfront rather than sending invites and keeping their heads down.

You’re ok.

So sil is happy to not be seen as a "real' member of the family in future?

She is in the same position as your DH. It's hard not to take it personally.
Kids I can understand not wanting, but to exclude DH who is the same relation to the family as herself. Why, just why?

When they had the first hint that this would be seen as a slight, if they were stupid enough not to have already realised it they could and should have said of course he could come and apologised.

So basically they wanted a certain thing for their wedding and your (the groom's) family did not agree so you managed to essentially sabotage it between you.

I wouldn't like you either.

Your poor brother and SIL. Particularly SIL.

Were they wrong to elope and not invite any of you? Absolutely not!

Agree with pp that they didn’t want the children at the engagement announcement because they didn’t want to raise expectations that they would be a part of the wedding. I actually think that’s quite considerate.
They asked MIL to return £5,000 to DD so he couldn’t use it against them in the future. Given he threatened not to go to their wedding if they didn’t invite who he wanted there, I’m not surprised they believe he would.
I think your DM being upset she missed her son’s wedding is reasonable. She must feel very sad about the whole situation. I think you have some bridges to build. Your poor DB having to run away and get married because he couldn’t have the ceremony he wanted.

Well they should have organised their own announcement event, not taken over the groom's mother's traditional family meal and taken it upon themselves to ban the grandchildren.

I would have eloped too if my family kicked off trying to dictate who I invited to my wedding. I can't stand it when people think they get a say in someone else's special day.

Your brother was clumsy with the engagement announcement and that's on him but sounds like his heart was in a good place and then it all got turned into something shitty. Then his wedding got turned into something shitty, your dad behaved horribly. He must feel like he never gets to have anything nice. I feel so bad for him and his wife.

Your mum being devastated is silly too my brother eloped and told everyone 2 months later. We were all delighted for him! Nobody is devastated he didn't do it in front of us because it isn't about us.

I think you should offer brother and SIL an apology and then just move on.

Apology Damn? What is wrong with you?

Op is perfectly clear. Nothing about bil sounds like he was trying to be sensitive and not upset the children! Which part of ‘oh children it’s dinner at grandmas with the family but your uncle says you can’t come this time, no idea why but he also doesn’t care if your dad doesn’t go so at least you’ve got daddy!’ Sounds sensitive and caring? I don’t know why so many people think being able to choose to announce your own engagement is the same as expecting all your family to jump when you say jump, no questions asked? He had no right to uninvited them from grandmas and is just as entitled about everything else.
All the op can do is smile and move on , as others have said, but she will never forget that her new sil isn’t family to her if her dh isn’t family to them.

To everyone who said OPs DH and kids and the cousins DP should have been invited because it's only five people - the bride would then have been forced to invite her cousins partners, the partners of her siblings and her nieces and nephews too. That could easily turn a small, quickie wedding into a massive affair.

I feel like if they’d arranged a family dinner at their expense at an expensive restaurant, no-one would be making a big fuss about “why can’t we bring the kids/more people?”

Because it was a wedding, everyone loses their damn minds. Your dad was silly and has fucked this for them. Now they’ve not caused any more trouble for anyone but just got on and got married, you should just applaud their decisiveness and move on. I think it’s lovely that they were so keen to be married, that when their initial plan was scuppered they didn’t cause any fuss and just did it. They’re lucky to have each other and @VitaSackville you’re lucky to have such a great brother and nice SIL. Have them round for dinner, send a card, have a word with your parents. Your brother is happily married to someone you like. Time to be pleased about it and forget the mess your family caused.

So sil is happy to not be seen as a "real' member of the family in future?

If this SiL is running far and fast in the opposite direction from her DH’s family, I wouldn’t blame her in the slightest. It’s her FiL’s behaviour that is really unconscionable; sounds as if the OP has unfortunately become embroiled in the crossfire. But as far as the SiL is concerned, it sounds very much as if it’s all the same to her.

Returning the cheque and eloping was the best and most dignified response the DB and his DW could have made in this situation. Sabotaging someone’s wedding isn’t a small thing to get over and could well have set a precedent for the future in-law relationship. My in-laws also have form for this, and although we eloped for entirely different reasons (ILs of course believed it was all about them) I’ve never regretted doing so. There’s little doubt they’d have disapproved whatever we did, and I suspect we inadvertently avoided a lot of angst/sabotage/controlling behaviour. Predicably, they were the only people who minded.

What to do now? Respect their wishes in future and if this means keeping your distance until the dust settles, so be it. It may mend with time or it may not. But one thing is for certain: the harder you push for them to restablish contact and accept apologies, the harder they are likely to pull away.

I feel sorry for the SiL.

I think your Brother is pretending nothing has happened because they've made plans to live far away and won't have to suffer any of you, in the future.

You've made their engagement and wedding all about you.

A Father refusing to attend his Son's Wedding is massive. You've minimised that, though. If you're going to do the 'family' line, then he picked your DH over his Son.

Had they been allowed to announce the engagement as they wanted to, it all would have been explained.

They were entitled to the Wedding that they wanted. You've all made the choice, including your Mother, not to celebrate the day with them.

To force relatives into eloping because you've all destroyed the couples plans, is diabolical. Obviously none of you have actually listened to them, with reason.

It's interesting that your DB's friends side with him. There's probably history within the family, or at least with you.

It must have really hurt your DB that your father put his son in law ahead of his actual son.

Your parents decided not to attend their sons wedding so your DB cancelled the wedding and eloped. I think the only person with reason to complain is your DB, your parents behaved awfully and I think you all owe him a huge apology

I think there are two issues here. One is the engagement issue and the other is the actual wedding.

The engagement was on the brother. He should not have hijacked (for want of a better word) an already arranged meal. If he wanted an adult only, family only meal or get together then he should have arranged one. To take a pre-arranged meal where the children were already expected by everyone, wasn't fair. If my brother rang and asked me to get a babysitter before going to an event where my children were expected - and indeed, expecting - to go, I wouldn't be impressed. If he took me aside, said that they had an announcement to make and would it be at all possible for me to arrange for someone else to have the kids that day, then I might be more amenable. So I think he cocked that up. I don't quite understand why it all had to be so secret from the kids anyway - so the children don't go, the DH stays home (?) and the OP hears the news. Hurrah she says, congratulations. She goes home, tells the family: "guess what kids, Uncle Bob is going to marry Sarah! Isn't that great!" I understand people saying that they didn't want to tell the kids in case they all got excited about going, but it's not like they were never going to find out!

The wedding is a different matter. They are absolutely entitled to invite, or not, whoever they like. If they didn't, for whatever reason, want the OP's DH and DC there, then they are absolutely within their rights to not invite them. What you or I might do in that situation is irrelevant (I would have invited them, because they're family, and if I was the OP, I would have either had a word with my brother as to why my DH wasn't invited, or I would have politely declined as I wouldn't have wanted to go without him). The father should not have made a scene about it - he should have gone to the wedding regardless of who else went or didn't.

I think both parties have behaved badly here - although not the OP herself, who while it would have been nice to congratulate her brother on his engagement, should also have been given a bit more notice as to why she was expected to leave her children out of a pre-arranged meal.

Your brother and sister-in-law are selfish and nasty. They went to a great deal of trouble to exclude your family from your wedding. Your parents were correct to show loyalty to their son-in-law and grandchildren, even though it cost them seeing their son's wedding--a wedding to which they'd just contributed $5,000. The check for $5,000 from the other MIL was a cold insult. If anyone should have sent a $5,000 check, it is the son. This entitled young man is still sponging off his parents, who are paying for his education even now. Of course the OP is upset!

I think your parents should have gone to the wedding.

I think you really were inconsiderate appallingly rude to not congratulate him (or them, I would guess SIL would have been listening in/on speaker or something) on the phone call. They didn't want the kids there for the announcement as they knew they wanted a small wedding and no kids! Which is obvious isn't it? They were trying to help you by not letting them get all hyped up about a wedding they weren't going to get to go to.

Your Dad throwing his weight around is also ridiculous. Yes it would be normal practice to invite spouses etc and I can see this could be hurtful but him refusing to go etc is making SUCH a drama out of it, emotional blackmail!
I can totally see why your DB and SIL thought "fuck this shitshow, let's just go do what we want and sod them since they aren't listening to what WE want" - a bit immature maybe but SIL is making a point/a stand at the start of her married life that she is NOT going to be pushed around over big life decisions by your family. I actually quite admire them for just going off and eloping. Bet more folk would dump the whole wedding drama and do it if they had the guts.
I think you need to try to see them both together, apologise for the phone call (say you were totally taken by surprise or something?) and try to mend bridges.
I do feel sorry for your Mum, not getting to see her DS get married. Is your Dad a bit of a steam roller over her too?

It's tricky with adult children for sure. Everyone in the wrong here but I generally feel parents shouldn't take sides as this just entrenches quarrels and lifelong grudges.

If they'd supported their son (by attending his wedding) and daughter (by acknowledging it was hurtful not to invite her nuclear family) they would have left the doors open for further communication.

Did your dad forbid your mum to go?

I'm guessing they didn't want the kids there when they announced their engagement as they knew the kids wouldn't be invited. Also they said they wanted to hijack the meal, presumably celebrate with a few bottles of fizz and if you had a babysitter you could celebrate with them.
I think it's completely up to them who they invited to their wedding. They obviously were planning a small wedding with maybe a meal afterwards?

I think YANBU. I have some sympathy for the brother - ok, he wanted a small wedding. But he went about it completely the wrong way.

@Ponoka7 said:
A Father refusing to attend his Son's Wedding is massive. You've minimised that, though. If you're going to do the 'family' line, then he picked your DH over his Son.
That's what I was trying to think how to say,yes your DB must have felt like his own Dad didn't care about his wishes, just "appearances".

Aw try not to feel too bad about your part in this. Obviously if you had known how it was going to end up you would have tried to calm your dad down and rise above what had gone on before. I would have been similarly insulted about my husband and children being excluded and would have found his cloak and dagger nonsense about getting a babysitter for the engagement announcement sufficiently irritating that I might also have forgotten to say congratulations. I actually believe that once your DB and DSIL have children themselves (if they do and it might not be for a while) they will only then understand why you felt as you did so play the long game and in the meantime a present and keeping things friendly is the way to go.

Someone made a good point a few pages back - if all of this drama hadn't occurred and there was a wedding for a close family member, would SIL have been fine about not being invited? Or would she have felt excluded and not like a "real" family member....just like OP's husband did?

I don't think giving someone £5k gives you the right to dictate their wedding and I think it's absolutely fine that they've now eloped. However, prior to that, having accepted that money and planning on inviting friends/having expensive restaurant I think it's totally unreasonable not to have invited the husband of the OP. I'd say it's pretty bloody rude actually. I'm surprised so many people are OK with that.

Your brother was very rude and entitled to try to prevent your DC being present at a family dinner, which wasn’t hosted at his own home. Think that screams volumes about his entitled and selfish behaviour and of your SIL and sedt the tone for his subsequent behaviour. The kids were invited by their GM and are part of the family. While there were no conditions made, the money given to him by your DF was given towards their wedding and it is pretty rude to cash it and use it for other stuff and then exclude the most direct family members, pleading poverty. And of course, the old mantra, their wedding, their choice applies but if you are this self-centred then you cannot expect your immediate family to be happy about it. If someone does not invite me to their wedding, i.e. eloped, I would not buy them a present. Why? They did not want you to be apart of it! And your SIL is an a-grade fucknugget to take this kind of attitude towards you and your DH. You did nothing wrong! I bet, she would feel outraged if she was excluded and not considered family if the shoe was on the other foot. I would stop agonising and trying to bend over backwards to make amends. Your DB is the one who needs to build bridges. And his MIL sounds like an interfering busybody writing out that cheque. Ironic that it didn’t actually come from the bratty couple themselves. If you are going to throw a hissy fit, it makes you look like a total brat if you throw back money when it ain’t actually yours!