To be fed up of posters who deny something happens based only on the fact it hasn't happened to them

[MrsGideon]

Twice in the last 10 minutes I have opened a thread where a woman is talking about a man or men acting in a creepy or inappropriate way towards her, and both times the first poster to reply has come out with something like "well it's NEVER EVER happened to me so you must be wrong" or "don't generalise because 99.99999% of men are perfect and would never do this", or even "you're misconstruing it OP, it's completely normal and you shouldn't blow things out of proportion".

For fucks sake, when women aren't even believed by OTHER WOMEN it's a fucking bleak world to live in.

To the posters who do this: are you so wrapped up in your own little bubble that you can't comprehend that other people's experiences could differ from your own? Does it make you feel superior to post your comment admonishing women for feeling uncomfortable and silencing their experiences?

Just stop it.

YANBU OP. I've never been murdered but I believe the crime of murder exists.

Some people have no concept of a wider world than their own narrow sphere of existence, and some of those people post on MN.

Claire I've pm'd you

I don't agree this is a taat. It's something I and others have noted as becoming an increasing issue on mn. It isn't a supportive way to post and it does display that posters prejudices which can include internalised misogyny.

No different to all those women happy to hand over sex based rights to the almightly penis just because THEY have no issue with male bodies sharing their changing rooms and toilets.

No empathy at all for the millions of women who object and need female only spaces.

I saw a poster on another thread sum up this phenomenon perfectly.

They said that people who couldn’t understand that others’ lived experiences were different to their own, are the kind of people who say, “there can’t be any hunger, my fridge is full of food”.

I agree OP, and it seems to be getting worse imo.

I don't even think it is limited to the threads around men.

It can literally be on any topic on here. I won't give examples as that would be TAAT.

The saying that sums it up for me is:

The plural of anecdote is not data.

You can see it even on, say, a thread about legal advice, someone comes on and says - I am a lawyer, the law says.... and then cuts and pastes the relevant section of the law for the OP. Great.
The next person will come on and say Oh but in my experience that isn't true!

I get really, really tired of MY opinion passing as the plumb line for all.

@steppemum people love some reckons.

Claire - no offence but long heavy periods are not normal and there is usually an underlying cause. When you say "checked out" does that include an exploratory lap? Because that's really the only way endo can be checked for and those symptoms would tie in. Does that include checking for non gynae conditions that can affect periods? Might be worth considering.

graphista, you do realise that you are doing exactly what we are talking about?

Oh heavy periods are not normal, there must be something medically wrong.

Well, maybe it is time to believe those of us who have very heavy periods that it is normal for some women. I am lucky, my heavy periods were never painful, and I was able to have a mirena coil which stopped them. I don't have endo, or anything else wrong with me, I have been checked and I am fine. I just have very heavy periods, and times debilitatingly so. One of the greatest joys of pregnancy and breastfeeding was no periods for about 18 months.

To be fair though, at least one of those ops asked "has anyone else noticed..." type question. What's wrong with other posters saying that no that hasn't happened to them? That's not saying they don't believe the OP is it?

I know this is effectively doing the same in reverse(!) but I'm always amazed when a woman says she has never felt threatened or targeted or intimidated by a man. Never ever been honked at by a passing car, shouted at from a building site, been leered at by "Uncle" whoever, brushed against on the tube or a bus or at a gig, followed a bit too closely by someone who has crossed the road after them, asked for their number by someone who wouldn't accept a no? That's so rare.

I saw the thread and despite having a similar situation recently I didn't comment as the mentality looked to be a case of there's no way it would happen to the same person more then once in such a short period of time. It does and it happens a lot.

I'm always amazed when a woman says she has never felt threatened or targeted or intimidated by a man... That's so rare.
And yet you can guarantee that if someone says that actually they haven't experienced this (without questioning the validity of anyone else's statements, merely stating a fact) that they'll be accused of being a liar....

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking Wow, how unbelievably rude. As I said, no one knows about which threads I am talking, nor have I directly quoted anyone from those threads. It is more a general comment on what I have seen over many years of being on MN, plus I happened to see a couple of examples of the same attitude today.

But congratulations on being a twat to me - I hope it made you feel better about yourself.

This has happened to me twice recently, on mn. Basically what was said was "I have no knowledge or experience of what you've just said, fromage." And I want to post "And your point is....?" Because their point is, as MrsG says, that they don't believe you.

How about if you think someone is bullshitting, close the thread and don't feed what you suspect to be a troll?

Why do these people feel the need to take the time to post and tell someone they are wrong about their own experience? What are you, mner denialists, MEN?

no offence but long heavy periods are not normal and there is usually an underlying cause. When you say "checked out" does that include an exploratory lap? Because that's really the only way endo can be checked for and those symptoms would tie in. Does that include checking for non gynae conditions that can affect periods? Might be worth considering.

Dammit thats the kind of stuff we are talking about!!

No it doesn't mean there is something wrong at all! Its just 'normal' for some people.!!

Willow2017, I am not the most regular reader here but, in the case of people specifically denying something happens at all, in response to an account of it happening, I agree that they are BVU.

What I see commonly occurring is structured more along the lines of:

1 [unpleasant incident],
2 (either within the same message or further along in the thread). Isn't [group] awful?
3 (Another person) I know plenty of people in [group], they're not all awful.
4 [Everyone gets upset because of misunderstanding].

This is such a fertile breeding ground for upset because everyone thinks they made perfectly innocent comments and everyone also thinks they or someone they care about is being attacked. Even the person attributing supposedly inherent traits of a particular group as the cause of the incident (point 2) isn't terribly deserving of blame, in my opinion, because, while unpleasant, othering is something that people are extremely good at (due to the evolutionary advantages conferred by tribalism) and is often a means of bonding.

And yet you can guarantee that if someone says that actually they haven't experienced this (without questioning the validity of anyone else's statements, merely stating a fact) that they'll be accused of being a liar

Everyone (to a greater or lesser extent) has a personal narrative about how the world works and disagreement easily transitions into (perceived or actual) attack because said narrative is so personal.

I'm always at people who post that not only have they not experienced something, but "nobody I know has either" (or one step more ridiculous "nobody I've ever met has either") - how on earth do they think they have full insight into everything everyone they know has experienced! Especially when it's something like going into detail about periods or experience of random men being creepy or intimidating on public transport, or rape, usually seen as taboo/ private/ not something people share with all and sundry.

They actually have no idea, they're just making sweeping assumptions.

Agree OP. I've seen this on a few threads recently myself. I'm lucky in that DH is a good man and I know lots of good men however I'd be naive to think they haven't benefited from male privilege all their lives. A male relative recently went to a strip club whilst on a stag party. Apparently he commented on how young the girls were and really didn't see that his entry fee and cost of drinks was probably contributing to trafficking. He has daughters FFS.

Lots of men are good however many more men are not.

@blueskiesovertheforest exactly! Most of us don't share our bad experiences with many people in RL, it's so much easier to open up about such things on MN, where it's anonymous. That's why there is that discrepancy between RL and MN.

Re periods I haven't dismissed anyone's experience as not being their experience, but you can't deny medical fact either.

I said "usually" and "consider" for a reason. There will be some women for whom the reason is as yet undx (it's incredibly hard to get one and there's a woeful lack of education on the subject) or for whom there is no DX ever reached and some women who don't have a reason.

But for many women there is a reason and they shouldn't have to continue suffering unnecessarily.

You do realise steppemum that you saying the mirena coil helped you indicates there may be a medical cause for yours? The mirena is a slow hormonal release device and it's likely those hormones have treated your symptoms.

Also I agree with those challenging the perceptions of those who claim they've "never met" anyone who's experienced "X extremely taboo/private/medically confidential thing"

I don't discuss my abusive childhood (inc csa), medical history (inc period issues and 2 mc), numerous instances of sexual harassment/assault, divorce, instances of disability discrimination, finances etc with everyone. There are many people who think they know me very well who actually know sod all about me!

A few have assumed they knew certain things and have made comments along the lines of "you wouldn't understand" and while I wouldn't claim to understand how they felt, they meant that they assumed I'd not experienced the thing they were talking about when I had.

I'm also aware of a good few instances where friends of mine have been assumed by others to have a "charmed life" when I know they've been through extremely tough experiences. I'd never divulge or even hint at a confidence but I do say things like "you never know what a person has been through" and I've even advised dd to bear this in mind when dealing with difficult people, not to defend them but to remind her people act the ways they do usually because of what they are/have experienced.

As she's matured she's realised more often this is the case as things have been revealed. Eg a girl that gave her a really hard time at school, not bullying but they clashed, turned out to be having a really tough time at home. Once that came out it didn't excuse her worse behaviour, but it meant it made a bit more sense to dd.

I realise I am guilty of this. This POV genuinely didn't occur to me.

I am very sorry, and will be more mindful in future.

I have been thinking about this subject.

I don't think I'm guilty of it - I might be - but sometimes I post in incredulity about something totally new to me, which might seem like I'm a non-believer. So maybe sometimes people are posting "I have never met or been within 40 feet of someone to whom this outlandish madness applies" and what they mean isn't "you LIAR" but "wtf?!"

Sometimes it's very obvious it's a "you LIAR" post though. Or perhaps more acurately a "Hmmm...are you sure? "

I know this is effectively doing the same in reverse(!) but I'm always amazed when a woman says she has never felt threatened or targeted or intimidated by a man. Never ever been honked at by a passing car, shouted at from a building site, been leered at by "Uncle" whoever, brushed against on the tube or a bus or at a gig, followed a bit too closely by someone who has crossed the road after them, asked for their number by someone who wouldn't accept a no? That's so rare.

I know it is off topic a bit, but I am probably (almost) one of those women) I guess I don't feel intimidated if someone honks or I'm whistled at from a builing site. Don't get me wrong, I don;t think it should happen, but I don't feel intimidated or threatened by it at all.

I have only once or twice in my life felt unsafe around a man, and each time I was comfortably in a safe place, eg with a crowd and we were moving on etc.

But I think it is a large part due to lifestyle and looks. I have only worked in a commercial environment for a few years, and only in a big city for a couple, rarely travelled on the tube or even by bus, so mostly I am in small communities and as a teacher, ,mostly around women colleagues. I was also not the sort of girl/women who attracted wolf whistles. (not pretty, not stylish etc)
I am also pretty assertive, and I think quite a lot of men i met were intimidated by me!

Not justifying or anything like that, I just think our lived lives can be SOO different and we forget that.