To ask if you see a second EU ref as a sleight against democracy?

[VladmirsPoutine]

Is there anyone that thinks that the 2016 outcome should be respected regardless of anything else? If so - how do you square that with the fact that Theresa May has tested her 'exit' deal to Parliament twice and both times been shot down?

How can this be the 'WILL OF THE PEOPLE' given the initial result was 48%/52%.

Just curious where people now stand given we are 9 days away from Brexit. No judgement here just curious how people are interpreting the various outcomes and ongoings...

BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil

I think another vote on Brexit is the most democratic next step..
It's been over two years and more time to consider.
How can a fresh vote be undemocratic? We all get a chance to vote, confirm or change our previous vote.

Do you have an idea how disliked the EU is over all this?.
The only way this could go to another vote is....
Remain...
Leave...

No deal...
WA.....

Oh and just because your friends and family tell you it would be Remain.... Maybe you should thing of all the people who in your views were hoodwinked by the Big Red Bus ... Because. Trapped by the EU...and all the other views, will be so much easier to sell to these people.

Yes. It not like the original vote wasn't publicised. Those that wanted to vote, voted.

Brexit isn't going well is it?

Bloody nightmare.

Democracy is an ongoing process. People are being born and dying every day.

Let’s just do the Hokey Cokey.

I'm watching BBC Parliament live, and it's sobering to see Tory ripping into Tory about being 9 days away from crashing out and five days (possibly less) from Operation Yellowhammer going live.

People are being born and dying every day

Yes, generally - and of course there are others who don't follow the trend - younger people favour Remain and older people favour Leave.

My grandmother died not long after the referendum and it was the subject of one of our last conversations. She asked how I voted, so I told her (Remain). Then she said "I would have voted Leave but I didn't vote". I asked her why and she replied "Because I don't think people of my age should vote on this - it's about the future and about what YOU want; we've had our time and it would be wrong for those of us who'll be gone in a few years to decide what you lot have to put up with"

Betty Boothroyd did a brilliant speech where she said that ‘a democracy not allowed to change its mind ceases to be a democracy at all.’

I’m a remainer but I’ve said all along if we can leave in a way that is not damaging then fine. If we had a second referendum and leave won again I wouldn’t be calling for a third. I’d be thinking great, the government now have a clear idea of what it is the public actually want so how do we do it?

There’s so much that got forgotten in her deal eg channel tunnel. There’s so much people don’t realise eg freedom of movement for EU nationals will be replaced with freedom of movement for countries we secure trade deals with.

All I really want is our government to start acting in the best interests of the public and for the EU to stop being made out to be our enemy regardless of if we’re in or out.

According to the 1975 referendum, which asked the question, “Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?” 67.23% voted yes and 32.77% voted no.

That’s a huge difference from 48.1% yes vs 51.9% no. Apparently the 2016 referendum was originally supposed to say, “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?” It was then changed to “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”

Anyway, before I go off on a tangent, why did we have a second referendum? And if we can have a second referendum, what’s wrong with a third one?

There are an untold number of things about this whole shitshow that make me despair to be British. One of them is people saying that a second referendum would be undemocratic.
And I get especially angry when I hear MP's say it, and go on about "the will of the people". This is their fucking job, so if they don't understand democracy, we are well and truly fucked (we are, actually, fucked).

Gronky Wed 20-Mar-19 13:59:02

If we are going to have a second referendum, there should be 10 general knowledge questions you have to answer at the polling station, nothing too hard, just basic stuff a reasonably bright person should know, and you don't get to vote unless you get at least 7 right.

This is an idea of genius!

You can have another referendum once we’ve left, we don’t have a general election before the last winning govnerment has taken power.
As for the original referendum being advisory, the government promised to honour the result and it would be political suicide to go against that.

We should never have had a first referendum. But a second can’t possibly be “undemocratic” - we have elections every few years, people can and do change their mind.

I slightly understand why people are hesitant to have a 2nd referendum though I do think they're slightly misguided.

The gap between the last two general elections was 2 years, surely a matter such as Brexit should be serious enough for a similar gap. I feel like there should be 3 options: agree with TM's deal, TN should negotiate a better deal or remain. With rules in place for a clear majority to be reached. I think it's preposterous that a gap of 4% is enough to makes such a major decision.

I see May’s tactic of continuing to seek votes on her Bill after 2 big failures as being more of an issue. MPs are being browbeaten into changing their minds which can not be right

A referendum is the only answer to this shitshow. I have no faith in anyone, except perhaps Yvette Cooper, to talk any sense about anything else.

No, I wouldn't find it a sleight against democracy. We hold general elections at ca. 5 year intervals in an attempt to ensure that the make-up of parliament reflects changing public opinion so why shouldn't we re-test the public's temperature on this issue?

In 2016 voters bought a pig in a poke. Now that we've had a chance to see the pig up-close, I think it's only fair to ask voters if we're still happy with the bargain.

This.

I can't understand anyone who thinks it would cause more division. If we don't have a 2nd ref then I will be angry about this whole mess for ever, if we have a 2nd ref and it's still leave then I will still think all leavers are wrong but I'll let it go. If there had been a 48/52 spilt to remain then UKIP and other would already be asking for the next one. If our MPs can't sort it out then it's the only thing left - who wants a deal that we've only accepted because there's literally no other option. It's so stupid I can't bear it.

I'm not sure you can call the original particularly democratic given how many lies were told, and also that what was meant by Brexit was never actually defined.

Referenda are meant to be advisory. Idiot Cameron decided this one would not be so.

Will of the people? May has no idea what the will of the people is, because the people have no been properly asked.

I think NOT having a second referendum now that people would be voting on facts and reality would be undemocratic.

I just see a second vote as pointless tbh and strongly suspect result would be fairly similar to first one and even if result is reversed (52% remain, 48% leave), how is that more valid than first vote?

I'm a remainer who absolutely believes there shouldn't have been a referendum in the first place (bloody David Cameron ), so I'm not in favour of another public vote.

Referenda are meant to be advisory. Idiot Cameron decided this one would not be so.

No, the 2016 referendum was merely advisory. A recent high court ruling even said that the result would be struck down if it weren't merely advisory, given the evidence of malfeasance by the leave side.

The PM and many other MPs have just chosen to treat the result as if it were the inviolable word of a deity.

I think a second referendum should be a clear question about the nature of the deal.

I’m sure they’ve done this in other countries on eu related matters.

Remainer - yes, lets have a second referendum. its not undemocratic we vote every few years on a government anyway. people didn't know what they were voting for the first time, now they do. all the old people who voted leave have now died.

leaver - we voted out, we won you lost now we need to get on with it. Not respecting the vote will lead to mistrust in democracy/politics. we have voted already, to come out and that vote needs to be respected.

and this is the way every single one of these threads goes. Almost 100% of the people saying that they want a second vote, voted remain.

there was a vote. more people voted leave than remain. the government and virtually all of the opposition parties voted Article 50 and said that they would respect this vote. and now some of them have changed their minds and bottled it. If they didn't want to come out the time to say that was when we were voting on Article 50 not now.

If we have another vote the figures will be similarly close. so if remain wins this time by a similar margin, whats to stop all the leavers saying in 2 or 3 years time they want another vote. I bet the remainers calling for a second vote now wont agree with that.

this was supposed to be a once in a lifetime vote. stay in or come out. the government and the opposition both said that they would respect the outcome of the vote and they haven't. both political parties have lied.

I voted out. Out of the Eu, out of the customs union, out of the ECJ out of everything. I didn't ask for a deal. I voted to go.

If we put this to the vote again we will be voting on this for ever and ever.

FWIW I fervently hope that the EU27 come back and deny us an extension because there is no clear plan.

TM is right. the country is sick of it. business is sick of waiting for a decision.