Is it "borderline child abuse" to take away a 14yo's phone/access to devices?

[Greensleeves]

...as a consequence for very poor behaviour at school? He's also grounded. It's for a week initially, he will earn his privileges back when school report a significant improvement.

His contention is that it cuts off his ability to communicate with his friends and leaves him with nothing to do

My view is that parents have been grounding children for far longer than children have had access to electronic means of communicating with their friends. And it's not supposed to be fun.

I'm not sure though, hence posting. AIBU? Is he right that it's too much?

[SmileEachDay]

There’s a growing body of work amongst MH professionals that constant access to tech is appalling for mental health - also, and I only found this out today, amongst ophthalmologists, that unlimited screen access can cause issues with eye muscles not relaxing properly.

Soooo. Grounding is meant to be dull AND you’re looking after his health. He could read a book, maybe?

[AlecTrevelyan006]

it is definitely not borderline child abuse - but that doesn't necessarily mean it is an appropriate, proportionate or effective punishment

[Topseyt]

No. It isn't abuse. It is called parenting.

[Chouetted]

@Jackshouse Well I'm surprised, I would have assumed it was witholding food that would have been child abuse, rather than specific meals. That is a very low bar indeed.

You are saying that, to quote a PP "not being cooked a different dinner from scratch at 11.30pm when they've turned their nose up at the 6pm one/stuffed themselves on a chicken bucket on the way home" is in fact actually child abuse?

[Greensleeves]

He did actually comment sourly that he can't even call the NSPCC because I've got his phone!

[TeaBea2019]

FFS

[Purpleartichoke]

I’d be tempted to hand him a cheap pay as you go phone. The kind we have to my great grandma. Has physical buttons to push to dial. Just since there are no pay phones around.

[TheInnerVoice]

To the PP who believes that withholding tech from a child for a week is isolating them from their friends when they can speak to said friends during the day, if you actually believe that a week of not speaking to their friends for a couple of hours after school each day is going to be detremental to their friendships, then the truth is your child’s friendships are probably already volatile.

There are definite links here between mh and (too much) screen time, and games, social media and internet use have been proven to be addictive.

I believe the withholding food being child abuse refers more to e.g. sending a child to bed with no dinner because they haven’t behaved rather than refusing to capitulate to their requests for full-on cooked meals at 11 PM if they’ve refused what was on offer at 6.

We need to take a serious look at society if we genuinely consider that cutting a child off from social media is child abuse. It absolutely isn’t, and to suggest as much is grossly insulting to people who have actually been abused.

Some people can’t afford smart phones for their kids. Many don’t allow social media (personally I think the age limit for that should be higher anyway), many put parental controls on their routers/children’s phones and many simply won’t allow them to have smart phones.

We seem to have lost sight of the fact that they are children and that discipline is still necessary until they have the maturity to make (and pay for) their own decisions in life.

I shudder to think what the next generation are going to be like when the current one have been raised to believe that they are entitled to everything and that if they tell their parent that it’s damaging to discipline them they will get a free pass.

There are a lot of children in this generation who are going to struggle going forwards into adulthood with that mindset. To hold down responsible jobs, to raise families of their own, and even more relevant, to be able to set their own boundaries through life when they have never been given any for fear of what they might do.

[PennilessPaladin]

My 15yo DS was banned from the Internet Monday - Friday this week for failing to complete 2 bits of homework.

It's called a consequence of bad behaviour, definitely not child abuse

[Greensleeves]

DH went up to turn his light out and got the "what do you expect me to do with my time" line, he suggested that if ds2 is bored, he can do jobs around the house. Ds2 replied "so you're emotionally abusing me to your own ends then". I know you lot think it's daft but it does push buttons for DH and me, neither of us had a very nice childhood.

It's for a week, pending my hearing from the school (arranged to receive an update next week) that he's shown a noticeable improvement in his attitude. If he's still being a dick to his teachers he won't be getting his privileges back.

[bridgetreilly]

Books, games, football outside, watch TV. If he genuinely can't think of anything to do without his phone then a break from it will be really, really good for him. Stay strong, OP!

[TheInnerVoice]

don’t rise to it. I know it’s hard but this is what kids do.

Does he know about your childhoods btw? Because if he does I would be pointing out that to play that one is exceptionally low. And then I’d tell him that there are chores around the house that need doing.

I would point out that a week away from his phone will actually be good for him as he’s clearly lost touch with reality

[GlitterStick]

Borderline child abuse! As if.
Sounds like something my teen would say lol.
Mentally roll your eyes, say "whatevs bro, you get it back when you start behaving!"

[reluctantbrit]

We recently took DD’s phone away due to lying and hiding her iPad in her room.

We allowed her to read messages and reply in saying “I am not allowed my phone, talk to you tomorrow. “ we said it is not polite to ignore friends but she had to say why she could’ chat,

This was for nearly a week, worked wonders.

The school expect the children to have a smartphone, they use it in some of the lessons and for revision apps. But unless DD had a specific homework she had to hand it in after school.

So far no repeats in behaviour.

[SandyY2K]

It's not abuse, it's punishment. As my mum would say....does he expect a gold medal for his poor behaviour.

What exactly will he tell the NSPCC? I'd tell him to stop with the abuse talk, or he won't be getting the phone back at all.

He's done wrong...he deserves a consequence.

[AlecTrevelyan006]

was he not punished by the school?

[Smotheroffive]

He is playing games wit you OP its fairly standard for trying to wriggle out of consequences. You really need to realise the boundaries that are vital, by getting counselling or something, because he is trying to emotionally blackmail uyou! He is totally taking the piss, so don't be cowed by his nonsense, stand firm, it does work. Being grounded is absolutely not the same and the furthest possible from actual isolation, where friendships are systematically undermined over time until there are no friendships that feel trustworthy any more. Those confusing the two seriously need to get a grip. OP don't let him play you.

Teens will use any and all manner of tactics to wriggle and squirm, but they are learning and growing and its vital they do absolutely learn when hey have crossed boundaries.

Well done! There is far too much crap going on with kids not having boundaries and consequences.

[Greensleeves]

Alec, I'm being purposely vague on details regarding the school and heir response, as unfortunately I was recently doxxed to the school SLT by another MNer who recognised my other child from my description.

I don't actually think it is wrong for parents to discipline children at home for appalling behaviour at school, though. I haven't brought him up to be blatantly disrespectful towards his teachers and disrupt other people's learning, I'm extremely cross with him and he has GCSEs next year so I want to nip the shitty attitude in the bud now. I am prepared to be told I've been unfair/excessive though, that's why I posted. Because I don't feel totally confident about it.

[MitziK]

Seems a bit young to be trying to gaslight his parents. But a nice bit of laughter directed at him should teach him that style of coercion doesn't work at home any more than it does at school.

(it's worrying he seems to be so good at it that you're doubting yourselves)

[TyneTeas]

OP I entirely agree with your approach but your post has made me think of the Armstrong and Miller Airmen

[Smotheroffive]

Its normal for kids of all ages to use abusive tactics, what would be considered abusive tactics as an adult I mean, and there's a huge difference. Some kids bite when small, but if you did it as an adult, no way!

Abusers are adults, but DC copy the behaviours in a power dynamic, so they need consequences to stop them act ing out.

[Smotheroffive]

So don't laugh at him, no, explain seriously that you can see exactly what he's doing and how unkind it is and cruel to make someone doubt themselves. Be very explicit about knowing what they're doing, and its to stop, put in a boundary to respect people.

[Smotheroffive]

As you've both come from abusive families your own boundaries might be shakey when it comes to having them challenged by a robust teen!!

[MumUnderTheMoon]

YANBU. Also I'd be very angry that he would dare liken the two perhaps while he's grounded you could give him "A Child Called It" or something similar to read it might offer up some perspective.

[BBInGinDrinking]

A same-age DC we know at an outstanding school recently had their phone confiscated for 6 weeks in line with school rules because it went off in the classroom. Parents were expected to support the school in this, and they did do. Strict? Definitely, but the DC knew the rules. Borderline child abuse? No.

I also use phone confiscation as a sanction at home with my DC. Of course it's as if I'm using corporal punishment or removing a vital organ, but surely it would actually be borderline child abuse to allow poor behaviour to continue unchecked? At times that means significant negative consequences are absolutely necessary. The consequences have to matter to be effective, and obviously smartphones matter.