to be rather concerned about my nephew

[Corkleg]

He’s 8. We are visiting his family, staying in a hotel (and I’m up because the minibar is making a noise) and we all went to a family party today. Nephew knew everyone there, his mum was there and he was very tricky. Pushing ahead of everyone, shouting, sulking when he couldn’t get his own way, interrupting the entertainer, and all in a very loud voice. His mum just lets him get on with it and had disappeared to talk to other relatives. I was chatting to his mum later and she mentioned he had been tested for something or other as he keeps getting into trouble at school but whoever it was said he was fine so that’s that. And yet it seemed obvious that there IS something going on. Another cousin has a child in the same class and said he’s very loud, interrupts the teacher all the time and is very bossy with the other kids.

All of this is none of my business except my (rather tipsy) brother confided in me that he’s worried that his boy just gets on everyone’s nerves and seems to have no idea, and what did I think. I said I did think there was something but I didn’t know what (and that I’m sure he’ll be fine, lovely boy, reassurance etc etc)
But what does behaviour like that generally point to?

[Corkleg]

Ah I see. What happens to kids like my nephew?

[3WildOnes]

I can’t say because I don’t have enough information and In situations like your nephews I see parents who are seeking out help so they often have positive outcomes. Which is why I would encourage your brother to seek out a parenting class and help from camhs. Camhs can access if there are any underlying issues or if it is a case of permissive parenting.

[shaggedthruahedgebackwards]

Some kids are just a bit obnoxious regardless of parenting, hopefully if that is the case he will grow out of it

Its seems like you are far keener to blame the mother rather than the father if their slack parenting is partly to blame

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that your nephew must have some condition or other to explain the behaviour

[Littlecaf]

Still not clear why your Brother isn’t doing much OP. Just because he takes his lead from SIL doesn’t mean he can’t parent his child.

[RainbowBriteRules]

Also not sure why you are so keen to blame SIL and think she should have intervened when the child has two parents and both were at the event (unless I have misinterpreted the OP).

Weddings can be the absolute worst place to get children to behave with all the excitement, formality and boredom, plus your parenting is on show and judged.

[Vgbeat]

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion he has a condition. He does sound very spoiled, I have an 8 year old who can simply be a madam, in all fairness she has calmed down a lot to a few years ago and whilst I always expect to her to behave properly, she can get a bit over excited and I think being an only child certainly has an effect but I would never sit back and let her misbehave (doesn't really happen now) she would have been marched out and only return if she apologised and behaved properly if not she wouldn't go

[Corkleg]

Rainbowbriterules it wasn’t a wedding!

I suppose I’m focusing on SIL because my brother knows there’s a problem but she seems oblivious to how very different his behaviour to the other children around him. And stood there looking right at him whilst he threw food!

[RainbowBriteRules]

Ah ok, my fault about the wedding sorry. Public occasions also very stressful sometimes. Are you sure your SIL is oblivious? Maybe she was putting a brave face on it.

[JamAtkins]

Reminds me of a child I used to know. He was never told “no” and very indulged. He simply had no boundaries to hold him so he flailed about. If you don’t know where the edge is you try to find it. Throwing food doesn’t help so you spit in someone’s face.

[MsTSwift]

Anecdotally we know two families with very nice, intelligent parents (doctors and politicians) who parent like this. In both cases their nt kids are utterly hideous and detested by all who meet them. The doctors were called into school 3 times in their child’s first term. Neither couple actually parent their kids are utterly ineffectual when they behave badly. It’s very odd.

[Corkleg]

MsTSwift what do you think is going on for them? Odd is the word!

JamAtkins yes, finding the edges is a good description. But why is he tricky even away from his parents? At school it’s clear where the boundaries are.

[Silkie2]

It might be partly guilt that they work long hours and want the time with the DC to be 'happy' ie no discipline

[MsTSwift]

It’s like they are scared to reprimand at all.

In one case their cherub pushed my dd off a bed - they were all 5 /6 so old enough to know not to do this. Dd came down to tell us. The child’s parents sat there and did nothing. Dd who is really usually very polite said to us so the could hear “I cannot believe I have been pushed off a bed and the parents are doing nothing about it!”. Even a child could see how shit their parenting was!

[FooFighter99]

This will be my nephew in a few years cos my SIL babies him and lets him do whatever the hell he wants 😩 it’s a complete lack of discipline that makes these kids turn out to be little shits! And it annoys me that people then try to defend them by saying they have SEN issues or whatever. No, they just need to be told no once in a while...

[Corkleg]

Wow MsTwift that sounds like a very similar situation. What did the parents do when your child spoke up?

[chipsandgin]

It’s a complete lack of discipline that makes these kids turn out to be little shits

^^This! Yes, totally - I have a nephew who is very similar, SO badly behaved, inconsiderate, no manners, no consideration of others - such a challenge to be around (and very difficult when my youngest who is the same age sees him get away with stuff, asks why he is allowed to do these things with no consequences etc). His Mum thinks the sun shines out of his behind and appears totally oblivious to the fact he has no friends, no parents want him to be around their kids (& if he is they daren't leave him alone with them in case someone gets hurt).

I wondered when he was younger if there were SEN, but no - just no discipline, no rules, no right or wrong (or at least nothing more than 'oh darling, you didn't mean to push Jack off the wall and for him to have to go to hospital did you darling, I know you feel terrible about it, let me get you an ice cream...'). It's no mystery as to how the entitled, boorish, idiots of the world become the way they do...

[Pernickity1]

Sounds a bit like my niece and I’m her case it’s definitely down to poor parenting/lack of consistent boundaries. I think you need to have a frank conversation with your brother OP.

[Millionsofthings]

@MrsTSwift

Another one here to have to cut contact with friends! We had some good friends who we had known forever and enjoyed spending time with. long story short I had enough of their DS deliberately attacking my DS ( who was 3 years younger) under the guise of “he hit me first”

Yes my DS has hit him but only after he had went out of his way to annoy him, take things off him and break them, pin him down or repeatedly grab him/hold him back!

My Ds was younger and retaliated but their DS would take great delight in being hit so he could run and tell to get my DS into trouble or so he could then start hitting my DS back!!

While this would be taking place my friend would be stood watching and talking about her new hoover or next night out!

My Ds is SEN OP... but not obnoxious!!

He likes to run around, he’s always in motion or tapping the floor, swings in his chair, likes to bang about, he chews clothing and his ability to listen and follow through on a task is painful slow if at all.

But he’s not obnoxiously and is very loving.

He certainly would throw food around... I think you DN sounds like he needs clear boundaries.

[OftenHangry]

@3WildOnes I absolutely agree with where the problems come from. However what I see here are essentially absent parents. Not physically but there is just no parenting. Imagine when hewill be told stern no for the first time by someone with authority.

Obviously I am not an expert, andI don't even claim to be, but from what I gathered lots of these "angels who wouldn't hurt afly and carry theirnan's shopping home" come from households with parents, but from 2 different spectrums. Abuse or no parenting at all. It's sad and infuriating at the same time. There should be a test before people have kids. Like driving test but for parenting.

[blackcat86]

You have to distance yourself from them as their parenting and the kids shitty behaviour won't change. DH has a cousin who's kids are awful. Their bad behaviour dominates every family occassion and the parents just let them get completely out of control before shouting at them, followed by crying, sulking and babying. Last time we all went out to dinner the 9yr old moaned constantly and then straddled his mother which I thought was really inappropriate at that age. They ruined our wedding playing up and after this Xmas where I had to hold our 5 month old for the entire of boxing day because they were tearing around, we've said we're just not doing it anymore. The parents are usually too busy showing off or getting pissed to parent and leave it to everyone else. Well fuck that. The stress just isn't worth it and they won't acknowledge that the kids are badly behaved. All you hear is that DS1 is doing extra maths, DS2 has gone up another grade at karate. All very lovely but I'm less interested in hearing about it whilst your 7yr old has pushed over his 4yr old cousin, the 9yr old is banging on the door where my baby is asleep and both have teased the poor dog all day.

[icouldbewrongicouldberight]

Do you like your sister in law?

[Corkleg]

Yes I do! She’s very gentle and caring and she actually met my brother through me!

[CommanderDaisy]

What happens to kids like this is generally that they have problems maintaining friendships at school and don't get invited to things.
Initially the other kids are okay but after a while they get tired of being bossed about , pushed around , shouted over and decide there are better people to be friends with who don't need to be first all the time, and the centre of attention.
The lack of discipline he receives will start effecting his social life, and other parents will be hesitant to invite such a poorly behaved child around.
If they don't start trying to teach him how to behave, they are setting him up for being isolated at school - and likely the focus of a few MN posts about wanting to leave out this one child for birthday parties etc.

I really, really doubt he has SEN or any of the other diagnosis that people leap for constantly ( I know there are a number of genuine cases but this does not sound like that).

Parenting classes for your brother and for your SIL - there is also a great book called Raising Boys by a guy called Steve Biddulph which we have found most helpful.
And if you can - I'd say something to your brother. They are doing this kid no favours at all.
Good luck.