AIBU parents threatening to go NC if I don’t “lend” them money

[Mortgages]

Need some advice and name changes for this

My parents who are first generation migrants to the UK want to start a business in their country of origin and want me to lend them the money to start that business to the tune of around 20000. It’s not entirely enough to cover the whole cost but what is needed to start off but what would essentially be a franchise.

My parents have never been good with money.... rent arrears, been declared bankrupt for other reasons, owe me from previous money which is now a ‘gift’ to them in the tune of thousands btw as well as my elder brother. The amount owed includes paying off other debts they have accrued including rent arrears for a property they primarily lived in but struggled to pay rent whereas I was living and working over 100 miles away. My brother and I have just written off all these amounts as money we are helping are parents with as they are our parents and we don’t necessarily want, need or expect it back. We currently help them with amounts here and there to prop them up.

Said parents though always manage to travel to home country once sometimes twice a year for often at least a month. They are close to retirement age with sketchy retirement fund plans except two properties in home country and what they would get from pension here so see this “business” as an opportunity to retire in home country.

They want me to lend them the money with stipulation that when they sell one of their properties I would get this money back. I’m not entirely sure if the worth of this property nor have I seen the paperwork to confirm that and any financial arrangement. I think they are just hoping I take their word for it. They realise for me to do this I would have to remortgage as I have savings elsewhere that will be needed for other things imminently.

I don’t want to remortgage and am anxious about implications of this but parents have become quite nasty such as threatening no contact because I don’t want to help them.

They have generally been controlling and manipulative to me over the years which has affected previous friendships/relationships and shaped the person I am today. I thank them for supporting me to be in the high profession I am today (which I am constantly reminded of) and has included some financial contribution from them. They paid for me to attend a private tuition college for 6 months (£4000) when I was 18 to improve my Alevels and get the university course they wanted me to. I did not go to private school however and they have never really “paid” for my education prior to that as such which is fine. I’m constantly reminded of this amount 18 years later.

I’m now really unsure how to handle this matter. Sorry it’s long but of course don’t want to drip feed.

TIA

[AnoukSpirit]

They have generally been controlling and manipulative to me over the years which has affected previous friendships/relationships and shaped the person I am today

Just because they're your parents doesn't stop this from being abuse.

Recognising that and putting a stop to it could make a huge positive difference to the rest of your life.

It's hard to undo the damage caused by abuse when you're still being abused.

[willyloman]

Can you share the cost with your brother? I would find a way to do it, with a few written undertakings. Let them know this amount is going to cost you and that it is a 'final' contribution. At least that way it's a lump sum and you know the cost. It sounds as though you will end up paying an equal amount if not more through the 'trickle' of lending they are managing to squeeze from you. This way you look generous but also have an 'end date' in terms of supporting them. Good luck!

[cstaff]

Just say no OP. No question and if they want to go NC let them at it and see how long that lasts.

[vdbfamily]

Is there a reason they cannot sell one of their homes to set up the business rather than you give them the money for them to later sell the house to pay you back.
It is a dilemma because whilst Mumsnet is fairly unanimous in the advice given, I wonder what response you would get if you asked amongst a group of young adults from your cultural background. There are many cultures where the expectation is that the parents get you the best education they can afford,often at great sacrifice but then expect financial support in their old age. This is not really done much in white British culture but I have several friends/work colleagues who regularly send money home and often have dilemmas when family are asking for more than they can afford. I have a close kenyan friend who is a single mum of 2 in social housing, working part time and she has continual requests for money. When we went to stay with her family in Kenya, their quality of life was far far greater than hers but because she lives and works in the UK they think she is far richer!
Having said all that, your parents have proved themselves unreliable and do have the means themselves to raise the funds so I would leave them to it. They will def not go NC as they need your money too much!!!!

[8misskitty8]

I would say ‘sorry, no I do t have a spare £20,000 to give you. Perhaps you could sell one of your properties to raise it ?’ at first.

Inevitably there response will be something like ‘ We paid £4,000 for your education, we’re your parents. We’ll never talk to you again if you do this’

Then Your reply should be ‘You have previously borrowed X amount and never paid it back. As far as I’m concerned I’ve more than covered any extras paid for by you when i was a child. I will it be lending £20,000 to you and that is the end of the matter. If you choose to cut me out of your life then so be it’

They’ll probably not talk to you for a few weeks or months.

[AmaryllisNightAndDay]

Don't lend. You can't say the following to them, but by not taking this risk you are ensuring that if ever they really needed money desperately, you would be financially stable and able to help them. If they take your 20K now and piss it up the wall (which you know they will, because they are financially irresponsible) then you wont be in a good position to help them in future. I'm afraid that they are the whining tantrumming children and you are the responsible adult here. The responsible thing is not to lend. Just say no.

Threatening to go NC is nasty. Accept the threat. They might go NC but they will certainly come back next time they want something from you.

[Drum2018]

Tell them a very definite. I and do not engage in further discussion about it. You would be mad to give them another penny again for anything. They can't manage their money so this business will no doubt go tits up anyway and they'll be looking for more money to fund something else after that. Please maintain some self respect and stand up to them now. Let your brother do the same and put a stop to these selfish demands and threats from your parents. Let them go nc - it would probably be a blessing!

[Drum2018]

'Tell them a very definite No' - typing too fast here.

[AnneLovesGilbert]

Absolutely no way. They’ve taken enough.

You don’t have it and they’ll waste it.

You owe them nothing. Why would they expect you to choose their batshit plans over your own financial security? Who does that?

[LannieDuck]

I predict they won't go NC.

If they're about to go into retirement without a good pension/ savings, they'll be in plenty of contact with you with more requests for money.

I think you're sensible to set expectations now. Help if you choose (because they're your parents), but do it on your terms.

[Wordthe]

OP has the whip hand but doesn't seem to realise it

[Mortgages]

Ok thanks everyone for helpful replies- reading all these replies is like years of therapy!

I will most definitely copy some of the replies to use my response.

I won’t get any help from my brother as we are not on good terms and neither is he with them.

Yes they are from Africa with similar ideologies that have been stated- ie parents work hard to get you best education and you repay them by supporting them in their old age- Tod I already do that and they benefit a lot from the fact that I can help them financially.

But 20k is a huge amount that I really can’t afford to lose at this point in time as I’m at an age where I need to start my life- marriage, kids...

They can’t just raise the 20k that easily from one of the properties as it would need to be sold first which will take time.

[Ultramic]

No. No. No.

[PregnantSea]

You already know the answer to this OP.

[Hortonlovesahoo]

I feel for you OP but it's really not fair to ask of you. I think you've supported them more than enough already.

It's another No from me.

[TopicalUseOnly]

Good point that you are at a point in life when taking on someone else's debt would impoverish not only you, but your potential future family.

If you have kids, and realise that you can't give them the childhood you want to because your parents have bled you dry (and are probably still asking for further handouts)... what then?

You do not owe your parents and they should not be allowed to overshadow your life. In particular your kids should not have their lives overshadowed by their grandparents' selfishness and greed.

Another recommendation here for the "Stately Homes" threads which a previous poster mentioned. Abuse can come in all shapes and forms.

[Slightlycoddled]

From your update, I understand there are cultural obligations and traditions at play here op, but it sounds as if you have more than fulfilled your duties in that regard over the years. The "NC if you don't lend us the money" turns this in to something else altogether. Suggest you read about FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) before you contact your parents again. Good luck!

[HeebieJeebies456]

If they have property then they can sell/remortgage and gamble their own money.
Don't give in to their manipulations.

[OurChristmasMiracle]

But it’s not just 20k anyway what about interest on top of that? what If something awful happens and then your home could be at risk? No. It’s not worth doing it and the fact they are trying to force you to do so shows they have no care about the effect on your life.

[HeebieJeebies456]

As for repaying through their 'estate', given their track record there might not be anything left after debts, creditors, death taxes and/or possible care fees have been settled.
Also, even in good sibling relationships money/inheritance can cause issues, you don't need this aggro.

[Amallamard]

You really, really should not get into debt to give them money! That's a terrible thing for them to ask of you. That suggests that the only people they expect to benefit from investing in your education are themselves. If you feel obligated to lend them money then fine but only as much as you can afford to do without borrowing yourself.

[Wordthe]

they are from Africa with similar ideologies that have been stated- ie parents work hard to get you best education and you repay them by supporting them in their old age
this may be workable in their culture/country of origin but it doesnt fit well into western culture, seems like they want to chose aspects of the different cultures to suit themselves

[PickAChew]

You clearly don't have that sort of money just lying about if you'd need to remortgage to obtain it. They just need to suck it up and be patient about the property selling.

[violetbunny]

OP, you should definitely not give them the money. This sounds like an unhealthy relationship and I would strongly urge you to read this book: www.amazon.com/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Reclaiming/dp/0553381407?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21