Seperating dogs from toddler at Xmas

[StoppinBy]

Sorry for the long post in advance, I will make it as brief as possible

My Mum invited my family (DH, Me, DD5 & DS19Months) to hers for Xmas. She has 12 dogs, 10 small ones, 2 big ones. Before accepting I asked what she would be doing with the dogs on the day, she replied 'I will separate them if I have to'. I take that as, yep no problems, dogs wont be with the kids and accept.

Following week my Nephews visit and I invite my Mum over, she lives half an hour away but will be working in town and have one of her big dogs with her. I ask her to either crate (all her dogs are crate trained for night sleeping/when they are away at dog shows etc) the dog or put her in the yard while everyone is here so I don't have to watch DS19mnth constantly. She refused and met the boys elsewhere with their Dad (she hasn't seen them for 5 years and they live 13 hours away interstate that is why I invited her to mine to visit when they came down for a funeral and had a quick stopover at my house).

I smell a rat about her separating dogs on Xmas day so chicken out for days avoiding the conversation call her to discuss what she meant when she said when she said she would separate the dogs if she had to.

Turns out she wants to have the littlies in crates that she thinks are not ok with the kids, the rest in the kitchen and the biggies in the kitchen where we are (almost all of the littlies growl at the kids and she has said things before like 'as long as they don't run the dog's will be fine with them' as if toddlers are capable of refraining from running so dogs don't bit them)I tell her that is fine, it's her house she can do as she pleases but we also will be making a choice not to come if she is unwilling to separate the dogs from the kids as I don't want to spend the whole day making sure DS is kept away and safe from the dogs, that I would like to relax too and I can't do that with the dogs freely running the house.

Convo ends in her telling me 'well fk off then, don't f**ing come' so pretty clear we wont be there. All sorted

But now my brother gets in on the act telling me I am being a drama queen, totally ridiculous and over the top, my Mum's dogs wont hurt the kids etc etc etc. My Mum is telling him half truths and not once has he been present when the kids have been at my Mum's and seen the way the dogs behave. For context he is 23 and childless. I tell him about the way the dogs have acted and he replies 'well you need to teach kids to behave around dogs, not the other way round'...… call me stupid but in my house if my dog bit my kid just for running around the house it would seem like pretty unacceptable behaviour.

Even after telling him one of her dogs bit me for no reason - I walked on to the back porch to speak to my Mum who was in the backyard with the dogs and one of them ran in to the porch, bit me hard enough to draw blood then ran off again before I had time to react - he told me it must be my fault as she had only ever bitten me

At that point I say to him that when he has his own children and dogs he can raise them as he likes but I choose to have dogs who don't growl at and bite visitors and sarcastically thank him for his parenting advice..... then it takes a nasty turn with him replying with 'well you can get fed and don't bother talking to me again (charming family as you see).


My Mum has for a long time prioritised her real children - her dogs - over us human kids but this refusal to see her dogs as anything other than angels is too far for me and I refuse to put my children in potential harms way just to make her happy..... AIBU or is this a reasonable stance to take.

[Bigonesmallone3]

My MIL will have 6 dogs at her house Xmas day and for that reason we have declined an invitation to go round as I have a 21 month old and can't relax.. YANBU at all...
Have a lovely relaxing Xmas at home with ur fam

[SnuggyBuggy]

You'd have to be thick as fuck to not lock away that many dogs when there are small children in the house. How can one person keep an eye on the body language of that many dogs at once?

[Nicelunch25]

Yanbu! Totally! Every year around this time of year I see in the paper a kid killed by a dog and wonder how that could happen. You are making sure your child is not going to be that child. Well done.

[LaLoba]

Childless dog lover here, who views my dogs not as “like family” but as better than my useless family. Your mum and brother are being very unreasonable. I’m sorry they are such arses. Enjoy a lovely Christmas in safety, and be proud you prioritise your child more than your mother did you.

[Letthenamesbegin]

Blimey - I’m an adult, have a dog and generally love them but quite frankly I’d be nervous myself of 12 of them!

[greendale17]

Who the hell keeps 12 dogs????

[MaderiaCycle]

Stay at home. Dogs are animals, they can bite, nip, bark etc. Knowing one is bad enough, getting to know 12 is impossible. We have one and she’s not in the room with the baby unless there are two adults.

[EyUpOurKid]

We will have four dogs at Christmas and a two year old. The dogs are used to living with the toddler and disperse to their own favourite spots about the house. There is always an adult on top of the toddler because dogs can turn.

12 dogs, plus your mother's attitude. Fuck that. Have a lovely Christmas without a dog shaped stressful shitshow.

[NoShelfElf]

There's no way I would take young kids to the home of a pack of dogs. They're a pack, in their own territory. No matter how well trained they are they are pack animals and can be unpredictable, as can children. At best, you would have a terrible day being constantly on edge and resenting your mother for it. I'm afraid if she wants to spend time with her grandchildren, she needs to do it somewhere else. Especially as she has shown that she is prepared to mislead/deceive you to get her own way. Take no chances where your children's' safety is concerned. Sorry they don't have the grandmother they deserve

[JayoftheRed]

When I was a child, my aunt had a dog, some kind of Great Dane or similar. It was massive. My brother and I were ok with dogs but not used to them - we didn't have one and we didn't really know anyone who did. We used to go to this aunt's house in the summer holidays to play with our cousins, so we only saw them (and the dog) once or twice a year.

I don't know all the ins and outs, but the dog would frighten me and my brother, and my mum once asked if the dog could be put away somewhere until we left, as it was scaring us. Aunt refused, it was the dog's house, not ours. OK, fair enough. Then it nipped me. Not badly, no blood, but at the age of about 9, all I knew was I'd been bitten by a dog and I was terrified. Mum asked again whether the dog could be moved away from us all. No, and I needed to leave it alone or it would bite me again.

We left then, she clearly wasn't going to listen to two frightened children, or their mother. We never went back. It was totally her right to choose her dog over us, but it meant that we now have absolutely no relationship because by the time the dog died, we barely knew who she was. We never saw them, except at the odd family event. She is now on Facebook and always suggesting that I take my children down to see her, but I won't. She doesn't have a dog now, but I've never forgotten her selfishness when I was so frightened and I won't expose my kids to it.

I am now, by the way, quite happy around dogs and would quite like one myself, but I would always listen to anyone who asked me to remove it from them! (We won't be getting one sadly).

[Mymycherrypie]

I find the “I won’t lock my dogs away for anyone” attitude really selfish. If you have a dog who can’t be trusted around children, and you won’t shut it away then sadly you are going to have a mauled child and a dead dog on your hands because of your stubborn attitude and resistance to understanding the dogs limitations. If you know the dog can’t be trusted around children why wouldn’t you keep it away from children?

[nicenewdusters]

MakeAHouse I've known several people like you over the years, people who prioritise dogs over the well being and safety of humans. It's usually as well that they're generally surrounded by animals and not people, because people don't usually like them very much.

[thehorseandhisboy]

This struck a real chord with me, although my mil only has two dogs. One rescue, one pedigree, neither trained at all - they jump up, all over the furniture etc.

She is my children's only grandparent, so I really wanted them to build a relationship with her. She won't come to us 'because of the dogs'. It was unbelievably stressful with babies/toddlers/young children. It required both of us being alert round the clock to ensure that no harm came to anyone. Definitely no lie ins there!

When I expressed any concerns, her response was along the lines of 'oh you just don't like dogs' and 'they would never hurt anyone'.

Because, of course, every owner of a dog who has bitten a child has said 'oh, I knew that she/he would do that'. Not.

She did modify her views a bit when her ndn's dog jumped up and bit her hand when she was taking the rubbish out.

YADNBU. Even leaving aside the dogs, she doesn't want you to go.

Have a lovely dog-free xmas with your own family. That's what we're doing this year.

[plaidlife]

Don't go, I say this as someone with a dog who will be crated for chunks of time over Xmas to keep everyone including the dog safe and relaxed over Xmas.

[billybagpuss]

I'm aghast that someone who has previously trained dogs to such a high standard is now completely oblivious to how dangerous dogs can be in their current situation and lack of training. Not taking into account the pack mentality and over stimulation of Christmas and new people.

[agnurse]

Makeahouse

You're correct in that it's her choice as to whether she crates the dogs or not. That's her prerogative.

The issue is, though, that she doesn't get to decide that her guests have to be comfortable with that and attend her home anyway. That's what she's trying to do. She's developed an attitude because OP (quite reasonably) said no, she's not going to bring her young children around if the dogs are going to be at large. OP's mum is BVU.

You can decide what you want to do in your own home, yes. BUT you can't then throw a fit because no one wants to come visit. You can't force someone to come to your home.

[StoppinBy]

Thank you to everyone who has replied. I am really glad to hear I am not the only one in this situation who has made the same decision that I have (both in separating your own dog and not attending an event in these circumstances).

I too cannot believe my Mum's attitude and no matter how many times over the years I have tried to explain to her that it's not just dogs but also kids that are unpredictable she just can't seem to see past the perceived injustice of us not trusting her dogs.

In our house we have a baby gate between our lounge and kitchen area, the dog stays on the kitchen/back door side unless we are strictly supervising them. DD5 can come and go as she pleases. I 99.9% trust my dog but I still do not allow him to run around the house freely unless everyone is being supervised.

If we have visitors then he either goes outside or in the kitchen area, I cannot see the issue, particularly when we have kids visiting and the reason for that is that you never know when a child (or adult) may be wary of dogs or not having their own dog may do thinks that may trigger a nip, in my mind it's not always undeserved (if a child hurts the dog/frightens the dog etc) but I do not want to put my dog in a situation where he may feel threatened enough to have a snap.

Anywho thank you all again, you have made me feel so much better about my decision and they can all have a Merry Christmas by themselves while we hang out and relax at home then head to the water park for the afternoon - which just happens to be at the end of our road...… Sounds so relaxing we might even do that every year

[Deadbudgie]

I think there’s a few things going on here. I couldn’t quite understand but has your mum said she will lock away the small dogs who are the nippy/don’t like kids group but leave the larger dogs out? Are they ok around kids? Secondly you really seem to have an issue with your mums love of the dogs (totally understandable if you feel that she’s always put them first, but might lead you to be less accepting of anything but all dogs must be put away). Tbh it sounds like you have come to the best conclusion to stay at home

[ginghamstarfish]

Sounds like you'd be better off having no or very little contact with you mother as she appears to be selfish and ignorant. I'd also report her for the one that bit you - could hire a baby or child next, needs to be PTS.

[StoppinBy]

@deadbudgie, she has said she will crate the litlties that SHE thinks are not ok with the kids, in reality none of them are socialised with kids, are scared of them and likely to bite, there are only one or two that I would trust on a one on one basis.

The big dogs are probably ok but again on a one on one basis, having the 5/6/7 dogs around the kids means neither my Husband or I get to relax and enjoy Xmas day, that is not how either of us would like to spend the day.

Yes my Mum has chosen her dog family but I honestly do not care, that is her decision and I completely and genuinely accepted it years ago, it has nothing to do with my decision and I would have the same feelings about not wanting to attend no matter whose dogs and house it was.

[Jamiefraserskilt]

**She told me she is hurt that I don't trust her dogs
You are hurt that she prioritised her animals over her grandchildren and by association, you.
Tell your brother to wind his neck in. If he wants to believe the edited version of your conversation with your mother, fine but he has insufficient insight to form a balanced opinion and in the absence of that, his view is irrelevant.
Have a lovely Christmas away from the drama x

[mushlett]

I do doggy daycare and dog boarding for a living and completely agree with you. It’s an absolute disaster waiting to happen, also agree with others saying more attacks happen with grandparents dogs than any others. Dogs behave so differently in a large pack than individually and are more confident and protective of their home and family. I hope she reevaluates her priorities.

[Prestonsflowers]

StoppinBy
I have two big dogs and two grandchildren, when they visit us the dogs are in another room with their own access to outside. I will never have them loose when my grandsons are in our house. I think your mother is being incredibly selfish and stupid.
I hope you have a lovely Christmas and you are definitely not being unreasonable

[StoppinBy]

@jamiefraserskilt I cannot say it enough but NO I am not hurt, not in the slightest in fact, I went through years if counselling and if it taught me one thing it was to not let things hurt you when the person who did the 'hurting' wont give it a second thought.

I am not hurt, If anything a little annoyed but not hurt. I genuinely couldn't care less and would have left it at a very civil, ok, that's fine, no problems, we will make our own plans for Xmas, I realise that is hard to understand for people that have normal families but there is only so much hurting that one person can take before they emotionally walk away, for me that point came years ago. It is like water off a ducks back to me, genuinely, if my Mum and Brother had not kept at it then I would have not given it another thought apart from to plan our own Xmas.

[WiddlinDiddlin]

I seem not to be taking my animal professional hat off tonight...

Feel free to pass on from a qualified dog trainer and behaviour consultant..

Adding small children who are not well known to the dogs, to a house full of people plus twelve dogs who are out of their usual routine is an absolutely CLASSIC, A GRADE fast track route to a dog fight or a bitten child and a euthanised dog or three.

I have FIVE dogs here, four of whom I would trust with my life, but I have no children, they are not used to children, they are certainly not used to children within their familiar space, and absolutely not with a house full of adults drinking and talking and tons of food around etc etc...

I do not have children into my house, at all, point blank, ever. It is that simple.

I am not willing to risk a childs safety, they are dogs and they will behave like dogs - if frightened or cornered or wound up to breaking point, they have teeth and will use them.

I am also NOT willing to risk my dogs safety either and I think your Mum is frankly showing NO care for her dogs OR her grandchildren by suggesting she leaves the dogs loose with the kids, it is a recipe for disaster of the worst kind.