AIBU to be surprised by spoiled rude behaviour by young visitor - or is this normal for a 12 year old?

[windygallows]

DD's 12 yr old friend is visiting over August - she lives abroad.

She is very sweet and enthusiastic but god she has almost no manners: rarely says please or thank you, always running late making us late for things, leaves the table without excusing herself, leaves her stuff everywhere, spreads her stuff out all over the house leaving mess that doesn't get cleaned up, on her phone constantly ignoring questions or conversations, never offers to help and was baffled when I asked DD to unload the dishwasher (as she doesn't appear to do chores). Have taken her to lots of sights and she's just like 'meh'. Have taken her out for dinner and spent a fortune. I'm finding it hard. Is this normal for a 12 year old? I mean I have a 12 year old and she's not like that - yet!

Just to add she seems v spoiled by her parents - has a credit card (from her parents) and is spending 100s of pounds in the shops - bought 70pounds worth of makeup yesterday including brands I can't even afford. Has loads of expensive clothes and vast amounts of tech, makeup etc that she brought with her.

There's not much I can do for now. I can't change her while she's with us and being strict and barky will just make for a miserable time. And while I know her parents there's no point saying anything as they'd think it rude and I'm not going to change their parenting style.

But please tell me this is an anomaly and not all 12 year olds are like this. My sanity is eroding and I have 10 days left.

[Cannyapper]

I seriously think you should check with your friends what they intended the credit card to be used for. Maybe she’s totalling rinsing them?! Xxx

[nymum]

12 year olds can be very self absorbed and it may not be obvious to her that your rules/expectations are different. I’ve gritted my teeth through play dates/sleepovers when children act this way. It would be very annoying after several weeks! I would just tell her, as others have suggested, please pick up your things and put them in your room, please clear your plate after dinner, etc. The rules in her home are clearly very relaxed and unfortunately that’s what’s normal to her. I’m American but live in the UK and have raised my children here. There’s a huge difference in expectations of manners between families in either country. We’ve had plenty of rude behaviour here during play dates. And my family in the US thinks it’s hysterical my kids ask if they can be excused from the table (as my sister’s kids run off without eating only to later demand to be fed again 🙄). Sadly,teaching manners isn’t a priority to everyone. As for the credit card thing, I wouldn’t focus on it except to maybe check with your friend she’s allowed to be shopping and not just using the card for emergencies. She might have a prepaid amount her parents felt she could have for her holiday to spend, or she could be using her own savings. Surely the parents are following her spending and she has restrictions in place? 12 year olds (and many adults) don’t necessarily understand the consequences of spending credit.

[SpiritedLondon]

I find it odd to expect a guest (child or adult) to do chores. That's not to say it's fine to leave personal belongings all round the house (I would expect these to be kept in her room/ sleeping area mostly) but clearing plates/ loading/ unloading dishwasher is not something I'd expect to do as a guest

I wouldn't expect a guest to clear up if they were coming over for a meal or staying overnight but I certainly would if they were staying several weeks. It would be the height of rudeness to sit there waiting for meals to appear or drinks to be delivered without offering to assist. I would ask her to do reasonable jobs like clearing the table or unloading the dishwasher as you would your own child.

I don't know any child outside the 1950s who has to ask for permission to leave the table either

Interestingly most children I know are taught to ask before leaving the table. I absolutely require my DD6 to do this. The child I know who does not do this is also rude in other ways - no pleases or thank yous, rude comments, generally spoiled ( lots of gifts etc) and I only really invite her for meals because I'm friends with her mum. I don't understand why you would not teach a child to do this and I would consider it disrespectful to the person who has cooked the meal to simply stand up and wander off without comment.

With regards to cultural differences between the US and the U.K. My experience of children in the US is pretty varied ranging from fairly non existent family rules to pretty strict. In the South where I lived they were generally stricter than parents in the U.K. Children for example required to call their parents Ma'am & Sir, completing significant chores, physical punishments, attending church etc. it doesn't sound like that's the experience of the child in is case OP and I feel pain in having to host her for such an extended period of time.

[justilou1]

I suspect her parents are going to hit the roof when they get the credit card bill. I bet it was just for emergencies and she’s gone batshit with it. Did she travel with lots of makeup? Did it seem like that was normal for her to have?

[Fantail]

Does she actually have an unlimited budget on the credit card? Does she understand exchange rates?

[Stupomax]

Re make up, in America unless it is an expensive provide school or academy they don't have uniforms and the competition of clothes, shoes, make up etc is quite intense. A lot of things American children wear for example lots of make up and long flashy fake nails I don't expect would be welcomed at English schools, nor would they be in Australian schools. So, I think the culture in America has children growing up a lot quicker and more image/money conscious.

Gosh, where are you in the US? It's not like that where we are at all. If anything I think children grow up slower and are less image/money conscious here.

OP - my children are 13-17 and we live in the US. I would tolerate very little of the behaviour you're getting from your house guest, and I certainly don't allow that behaviour from my own children.

[Ethylred]

How strange. I'm British but my experience of America and Americans is extensive (lived there for 10 years, married an American) and I can never get over their emphasis on politeness and good manners. This includes the young.

[HopelessWithNumbers]

Don’t the sales assistants do a double take when a 12 year old pays with a credit card?

(Misses point of thread)

[Biologifemini]

You would be doing her and her parents by pointing out her poor behaviour.
You are also giving your fighter ideas by not pulling her friend up on this.
So what if she goes back and complains? She is a nightmare.

[SalemBlackCat]

@Stupomax I am in Australia where uniforms are compulsory in public and private schools, and it takes so much pressure off the parents, the budgeting, and you go through clothes less. All one needs to do is watch American shows or peruse the internet to see the enormous social pressure in America to wear top clothes and fashions. Everyone knows that is standard in America, even Americans admit this. Are you really in America?

[windygallows]

Fan she has spent about 400 pounds on her credit card which is well, a lot. She has checked with her parents on the big spends and they are okay with it. So I guess no point in saying anything!

[SalemBlackCat]

windygallows has she offered to shout you all a meal out, or buy her friend your daughter anything?

[MsJinglyJones]

FOUR HUNDRED POUNDS?

To have that much money as holiday spending money is so far outside normal you can't even begin to address that. Just make sure your DD understands how excessive it is.

I'm actually starting to feel sorry for this girl. It's not healthy at all for her to be growing up like this with no understanding of money and how to behave. I'd still be reminding her of manners etc. though, it's doing her a favour to show her how that stuff works.

[crispysausagerolls]

I think the money thing is neither here nor there, really. If her parents allow her to spend like that, and they can afford it, fine.

What is NOT fine, is her complete lack of basic manners. She should absolutely be helping out around the house and saying her pleases and thank yous. And I would be telling her parents that!

Also, I do not think it’s fair to expect a 12 year old to have a concept of buying you a gift to say thank you; I would however expect her parents to send you a wonderful gift since they obviously do have the money and you sound like a saint!

[Stupomax]

Are you really in America?

Thanks for your concern. I've checked and I didn't magically teletransport overnight. I am still in America, as I have been for a very long time. So are my three American children, who go to American schools, none of which meet the expectations you have gained by watching TV and reading the internet, but which actually are as I described based on real life experience

[Teacher22]

The OP is practising traditional parenting and the other child is being brought up under a liberal parenting regime where rules and manners are never enforced and the child is implicitly led to believe he or she is the centre of the universe. Traditional parenting insists on rules, boundaries and manners.

It is all very well to create a false sense for a child of being the most important person in the world but at school and later in life at university or work they will not be. It will be a horrible shock and they will have no knowledge of human nature to interpret the motivation of others, no rules to live by and no manners to render themselves acceptable. They are virtually unemployable and, I have seen from experience, often become depressed and despondent. Being a teacher and a mother of two I have seen this horrible situation many times in my pupil charges and my children's friends.

The worst thing is that when adults like the OP encounter these spoilt children they dislike their behaviour and, often, the child. It is hardly fair as their outlook and behaviour are the responsibility of the parents. How can children know how to behave properly if they are not taught to?

I was quite a strict mother (and teacher) and my children have had no reason to complain being both employed and praised for being mature, helpful, diligent and caring.

[Tistheseason17]

It's not an American or UK thing.
It's a spoiled, entitled, lack of boundaries thing :)
Credit card spending does not equal love - I bet OP's daughter gets plenty of love.

[SnowyAlps]

My ds’s 14 & 18, have always said ‘Im finished please may I leave the table?’. (And I’m in my 30’s- teen mum- so def not a 50’s thing!!!)

[windygallows]

Salem she's offered to pay for dinner before we go which is nice. Today shopping she asked for some small things and said 'if you can't afford it, I have some money.' Cheeky so and so!!

Btw this isn't an American thing because I'm originally from there and it's not behaviour I'm used to. This IS modern childhood in over indulged households. I actually find it really gross and a bit sad. She is only 12 but already looks like that bored girl at the end of the night at a party who is jaded and seen it all. Sigh