AIBU to be surprised by spoiled rude behaviour by young visitor - or is this normal for a 12 year old?

[windygallows]

DD's 12 yr old friend is visiting over August - she lives abroad.

She is very sweet and enthusiastic but god she has almost no manners: rarely says please or thank you, always running late making us late for things, leaves the table without excusing herself, leaves her stuff everywhere, spreads her stuff out all over the house leaving mess that doesn't get cleaned up, on her phone constantly ignoring questions or conversations, never offers to help and was baffled when I asked DD to unload the dishwasher (as she doesn't appear to do chores). Have taken her to lots of sights and she's just like 'meh'. Have taken her out for dinner and spent a fortune. I'm finding it hard. Is this normal for a 12 year old? I mean I have a 12 year old and she's not like that - yet!

Just to add she seems v spoiled by her parents - has a credit card (from her parents) and is spending 100s of pounds in the shops - bought 70pounds worth of makeup yesterday including brands I can't even afford. Has loads of expensive clothes and vast amounts of tech, makeup etc that she brought with her.

There's not much I can do for now. I can't change her while she's with us and being strict and barky will just make for a miserable time. And while I know her parents there's no point saying anything as they'd think it rude and I'm not going to change their parenting style.

But please tell me this is an anomaly and not all 12 year olds are like this. My sanity is eroding and I have 10 days left.

[Crunchymum]

Did she come over by herself?

How long is she here for?

Will your DD be going to visit them in return?

The easiest solution I can think of is stop taking the kid places she can use her credit card (and has the 12yo using the CC not been questioned? Particularly given she is spending so much!!)

[Trinity66]

Not it isn't normal but it's her parents fault not hers

[Booboostwo]

Immigrantsong I am Greek as well. I have been directly asked if I was trying to be funny when saying please and thank you too much and family have mentioned that I should leave my poor DC alone rather than pester them to say please/thank you. Of course there are cultural stereotypes but what I said was that what counts as rude or polite varies in different cultures which is different from saying that an entire culture is ruder than another one.

I live in France where not many people bother with please/thank you but eyebrows are raised if you don’t say bonjour, even in context should where other culture should would find it odd, e.g. walking into a shop or waiting room you say bonjour to strangers. And don’t get me started on kissing, everyone kisses everyone every day, children are strongly encouraged to kiss hello even if they don’t want to. Many British people would phone the NSPCC if their DCs were kissed like this!

[Booboostwo]

Immigrantsong there is a thread on hugging babies on at the moment, can you imagine anyone not passing their baby around in Greece?! The θείτσες would wrestle the baby out of their arms!

[Immigrantsong]

@booboostwo γειά σου! Could it be that we place more levity behind please and thank you, ie the person has to really mean it rather than perfunctory saying it for social graces? Not sure. My family and friends are absolutely obsessed with manners and openly judgemental of anyone that lacks said attributes. Completely agree about holding babies. When will people think of τις θείες;

[hmcAsWas]

Not her fault if that is how her parents have raised her

[Hizz]

I don't know any child outside the 1950s who has to ask for permission to leave the table either
Really? My DC have always done that and so have the majority of their friends who visit. It's just good manners not to just leave the table and wander off from a meal.
Now adults they still say thank you for the meal before leaving the table.

[whathappenedtherethen]

Sheworebluevelvet it was myself that suggested speaking to her in a way other than strict. The child is 12 years old, she will fully understand the tone and context, this would not confuse a 12 year old child.

As I have worked with children for too many years to mention and have a degree in child psychology I wouldn't just advise someone be "sarky" as you put it.

All behaviours are acquired through conditioning therefore small steps to change someone's behaviour are needed.

[AcrossthePond55]

I didn't even use my (parent's) friend's first names! "yes, ma'am" "no, sir", "Of course Ms Jones".

Isn't that the truth! They were either called Mr/Mrs Surname, or if they were very close family friends they got the 'honorific' Aunt/Uncle so-and-so. Neighbours were usually called Miss or Mr First Name.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

I guess this is what happens when a child is brought up with everything being done for her and no expectations of her to take care of her own stuff or pick up after herself!

Not quite the same because the girl in question was older, but my parents used to take in foreign students learning English over summer holidays. One Turkish girl was very sweet and lovely but had no fucking clue about anything - I think they had servants in her house in Turkey so she never had to do a thing. She was about 19 though, which made it worse because as a young adult you have certain expectations of behaviour that can't be glossed over as her being a child who may not understand! She learnt more than just English at our house though - by the end of it, she could make her own cups of tea and coffee and knew how to wash dishes and put her laundry out for washing!

Manners are different in each country too, let alone from family to family. But this is why I do strongly believe all children should be taught to say please and thank you - it just oils the wheels of society and stops others from wondering if you were just badly brought up, or if you're an enormously entitled spoilt wanker.

[PorkFlute]

You won’t change her and in 10 days time she’s no longer your problem so I’d just put it down to experience and not host her again tbh. Her parent can come with her and get a hotel if they want to visit again.

[vikjul]

This is something I have thought quite a lot about, as several (although a minority) of my DC's friends (similar ages) behave with a similar lack of manners in our house, for example requesting other food/drinks than what is offered, checking the fridge, not saying please or thank you, not greeting someone who enters the room etc. Often lovely children in other ways, just with this complete lack of basic manners. In most cases, their parents are perfectly nice people that we enjoy socialising with. I just don't get it. Why would people who obviously have good manners themselves not want to pass this on to their children ? I find parenting challenging in so many ways, but establishing basic manners isn't exactly rocket science. DH thinks that it is some type of deliberate parenting choice. I'm not sure.

Anyway, my way of dealing with it is to be friendly but to make clear that I expect certain behaviour, for example "please look at me when I'm speaking to you" or "please don't leave the table until everyone has finished," "don't open that yet, we're not having cake until everyone is here," "could you help me with xx" etc. Funnily, this tends to lead not only to more polite behaviour but also ime to a more relaxed/open relationship with these friends of the DC (after the initial shock ).

(We are Swedish btw, and I wouldn't say that lack of manners is a national characteristic or anything , although it certainly seems to be on the increase...)

[Oblomov18]

I think you're playing this all wrong.

Ds1(14) went to stay with my sister-in-law last week. she has certain rules: no phone no Xbox after 9 o'clock; load the dishwasher and take the dogs out.

these are different rules to what we have at home, but he should comply and he did comply because those are her rules.

You should have sat her down and said irrespective of what you do at home these are my rules and that's the way it is.

DS phones me saying sil has a 9pm curfew. What a good idea said Dh and I. Ds1 was not impressed!! .

[IceCreamFace]

I would say it's within the normal range (but definitely in the above averagely rude side of normal). Her parents are doing her a disservice by not teaching her manners.

[Drivenmad80]

What 12 year old has a credit card! That's ridiculous. I would try telling her that you have house rules and that you would like her to follow them as best she can

[manicmij]

Sounds as if the girl is served hand and foot as well as money being no object. You won't change her but you can expect her to abide by your rules. Lay down the rules you expect of your DD and remind your guest when she falls foul of them. As to the credit card, surely if her parents wanted it to be used for any emergency they should have had the decency to let you know the girl was coming equipped with this. As they didn't you shouldn't interfere in that respect. Spoiled beyond belief.

[pollymere]

She sounds emotionally neglected to me. She doesn't know these things because her parents aren't there to show her. She doesn't know about chores, possibly because someone is paid to do them. I suspect parents equate giving money with love so she has their money but not their time.

[TemptressofWaikiki]

Have Middle Eastern, French and German relatives and therefore spent a lot of time with all of them. I can categorically say that especially, in France and Germany, good manners are the norm and expected. That German teacher must hail from an alternative universe. I still spend a lot of time in France and especially, the younger kids seem better behaved than many of the English kids. I would really tell that little madam to clear up after herself and set down some ground rules.

[huha]

Not normal. Maybe cultural depending where in the states. (I'm American). Some rich kids have zero expectations and everything is done for them, she sounds like one for sure!

I would set boundaries and expectations. She's in your home, she follows your rules. Simple.

[Hadalifeonce]

I don't care who the children are, I expect a please or thank you. I volunteer somewhere and children often ask for a glass of water, if they don't say thank you, I keep hold of the glass until they do, either of their own volition or because I ask them what they should say. They generally only forget once.

[windygallows]

Trip to London today and she bought £170 shoes which made my dd feel bad because I couldn't afford to get her the same! Yikes. The only person winning from this visit is her.

[Shockers]

It isn’t normal. I’ve just spent a week as a volunteer on a holiday for kids with disabilities. One of the other helpers had her 12 yr old DD with her; she was a wonderful young person who treated everyone with the utmost respect, and mucked in with all tasks. She was a delight.

[Cloudyapples]

What 12 year old needs £170 shoes?!

[llangennith]

Tell her what's expected and I'm sure she'll do as you ask. You can't blame her if her parents haven't taught her how to behave properly.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Oh I feel for you! Had visitors like this (very close friends dd) - and they are also used to being waited on.

I just don't entertain debate. So "when x y and z is done we can head off into London shopping". Then just get on with your day. It relieves you of nagging duties too!