AIBU to be surprised by spoiled rude behaviour by young visitor - or is this normal for a 12 year old?

[windygallows]

DD's 12 yr old friend is visiting over August - she lives abroad.

She is very sweet and enthusiastic but god she has almost no manners: rarely says please or thank you, always running late making us late for things, leaves the table without excusing herself, leaves her stuff everywhere, spreads her stuff out all over the house leaving mess that doesn't get cleaned up, on her phone constantly ignoring questions or conversations, never offers to help and was baffled when I asked DD to unload the dishwasher (as she doesn't appear to do chores). Have taken her to lots of sights and she's just like 'meh'. Have taken her out for dinner and spent a fortune. I'm finding it hard. Is this normal for a 12 year old? I mean I have a 12 year old and she's not like that - yet!

Just to add she seems v spoiled by her parents - has a credit card (from her parents) and is spending 100s of pounds in the shops - bought 70pounds worth of makeup yesterday including brands I can't even afford. Has loads of expensive clothes and vast amounts of tech, makeup etc that she brought with her.

There's not much I can do for now. I can't change her while she's with us and being strict and barky will just make for a miserable time. And while I know her parents there's no point saying anything as they'd think it rude and I'm not going to change their parenting style.

But please tell me this is an anomaly and not all 12 year olds are like this. My sanity is eroding and I have 10 days left.

[MrsFogi]

Your house your rules. But...she needs to know the expectations. I'd sit down with her and explain that you are delighted to have her and that whilst she stays you expect her to fit in with your family. And then lay out the "rules" that apply to your dd.
She is 12 so will totally understand and if she then does not do so she is then being rude. You can then remind her about expectations as necessary, be fairly direct if she is ignoring them after a reminder. It's much easier all round to be straight with people, including 12 year olds.
I'm forever saying "In this house we....", "In this house we don't...." in a friendly but no-nonsense way to various of the dc's friends in the house and they have always simply got on with it.

I also have great memories of my childhood regularly staying with cousins (6 of them) and simply being asked to do chores etc as though I was one of the family. I learnt a great deal during those stays because I was asked to do stuff I hadn't necessarily done at home so learnt that I could do stuff my parents had done for me.

[whathappenedtherethen]

Feel sorry for I really do! How about just a "where do you think you're off to" in a smiley jokey manner when she leaves the table and then just ask her sit back down, not everyone's finished yet. She may be a little embarrassed but it's not you being rude it's just guiding her into British manners, that's all.

[deepsea]

This is not unusual in my experience, my dds friends can be like this (12&13) all live in the UK. They can be very rude, no manners. Don’t book any more expensive days out it is a waste of money. And start every line ‘In our house darling we...’
We also tend to not invite them too often.

[tillytoodles1]

My friend lives abroad, one day her daughter invited a friend around, but friend stayed in the car while they went into the house as no-one had held the car door open for her!

[windygallows]

Tilly - LOL!

[Happyhippy45]

@windygallows
I lived in the USA until my kids were DS 10 and dd13. Your guest sounds a lot like a lot of my dds friends. We lived in a very naice town where lots of people had money big houses, cleaners and housekeepers. We didn't A lot of my kids friends didn't do chores. Culturally the please and thank you thing isn't as important as I think is here....they just word things differently and it's acceptable and not rude BUT many people use please and thank you so it's not like it's odd. I'd personally not say anything about that. Same with being excused from the table. I'd speak about the phones at the table and not answering you when you speak because that is rude.
I'd also ask her to tidy up her stuff and help your dd with her chores.
Hope the time passes quickly.

[Butterflycookie]

Who’s paying for all these trips you are taking her to? I wouldn’t bother making an effort unless she changes her attitude. Get your daughter to talk to her. It would be easier than it coming from you.

[shrubsoles]

I find it odd to expect a guest (child or adult) to do chores. That's not to say it's fine to leave personal belongings all round the house (I would expect these to be kept in her room/ sleeping area mostly) but clearing plates/ loading/ unloading dishwasher is not something I'd expect to do as a guest.

I don't know any child outside the 1950s who has to ask for permission to leave the table either.

Please and thank you I'd expect from a child raised in UK but not necessarily from those from other countries.

[windygallows]

Shrub, I wasn't expecting her to do chores but keep things tidy etc. I think my observation is that she probably doesn't do chores as this stuff isn't on her radar at all!

[Ohyesiam]

Not normal, but spoiled.
You won’t change her as you say, but lay down your ground rules, especially with stuff that creates work for you, like mess.

[Cornishclio]

No it is not normal and she is obviously spoiled. I would not make a big fuss about her not saying please or thank you but point out to your daughter that as she is a guest and not your daughter you are not disciplining her but your daughter should maintain the status quo and not think she can get away with being rude. Actually even my 2 year old granddaughter is not allowed to leave the table until the adults are finished. We give her a toy but if you do not start teaching manners until later it is harder. She has been taught to say please and thank you and Hello and Goodbye to visitors.

[roseblossom75]

Yes by all means make your house rules clear to her but bare in mind if she is staying away from home she may be putting on a bold front and is probably feeling a little lost in a different house/ country.
I think you need to be gentle in your approach or she could end up crying to go home.

[SalemBlackCat]

Leaving the table isn't a big deal where I live, meals are more casual and often in the lounge room or bedroom even. I thought asking to be excused was an American thing. But not saying please and thank you, that is wrong. I like the approach of MsJinglyJones by staring and reminding the guest of please/thank you.

Re make up, in America unless it is an expensive provide school or academy they don't have uniforms and the competition of clothes, shoes, make up etc is quite intense. A lot of things American children wear for example lots of make up and long flashy fake nails I don't expect would be welcomed at English schools, nor would they be in Australian schools. So, I think the culture in America has children growing up a lot quicker and more image/money conscious.

I remember my parents giving me spending money and enough to pay for a meal out for my friend and host family. That was expected of me by my parents.

[oldsockeater]

I find it odd to expect a guest (child or adult) to do chores. That's not to say it's fine to leave personal belongings all round the house (I would expect these to be kept in her room/ sleeping area mostly) but clearing plates/ loading/ unloading dishwasher is not something I'd expect to do as a guest.

Disagree with this - If I was a guest in someone's home I would definitely help with things like clearing plates. Even if I was only there for one meal I would offer, but if staying for a month I would fully expect to do a fair share of these and other chores. You would be doing this child a massive favour by teaching her these basic manners - otherwise no one will ever want her for a guest for a second time

Also IME children are expected to stay at the table until the meal is finished - they certainly aren't allowed to just wander off whenever they feel like it.

[KC225]

I was going to ask if she was Swedish. We moved from London to rural Sweden 3 years ago and I STILL cannot believe the lack of basic manners. None the kids say please or thank you, even if you hand them something directly. They get up from the table and just leave plates despite me saying before hand, when you have finished put your dishes/glasses in the sink. No goodbye or thanks when they leave - so irritating.

[Biker47]

I've never once excused myself from a table in my entire life.

[Roomba]

Thank you to whoeevr posted about cultural norms in Greece. My ex's best friend is Greek, and when DS was a toddler he sat us down for a very solemn word as he was worried a lot about DS. We thought maybe he'd noticed something awful we'd not picked up on or something. Turned out, he was really worried that DS was far too polite, always saying please, thank you and excuse me before interrupting! He had visions of DS being bullied horribly when he started school, as that was not, in his experience, how small children behaved. He thought it made him look like he was taking the mick out of grownups too.

OP, I have a 12 year old, and yes, he can be rude without thinking occasionally. But this isn't normal to me and I'd be mortified if he behaved like this in someone else's home - I've always drummed manners into them and made clear you pitch in with other families and do the chores etc that they do!

[Winterbella]

She's not just spoilt but spoilt rotten, she's only 12 and if your DD idealises her already you need to be clear that the way she is behaving is not normal as I suspect if she ever visits again ( which to be honest if it were me i would discourage) as she gets older she will be even worse.

No boundaries and unlimited spending power+teenager=trouble!

[SheWoreBlueVelvet]

The not please and thank you is rude. Even if you our culturally different it must be bloody obvious that's what you need to say or do.

I wouldn't be sarky or make snide comments though ( please don't do the cheery " where do you think you're going" someone suggested. It'll confuse her - she's going to het room obvs). Be direct about what you expect.
It's probably a bit late to point out the manners side but certainly getting her to load the dishwasher or help unload could be instigated.

[KC225]

Roomba Hahahaha. I keep drumming on how good manners are so important (as they count for nothing up here in rural Sweden). I tell them 'good manner are always, always noted and well received' but not if they meet a Greek grown up apparently. Who knew? You live and learn.

[AcrossthePond55]

DC in the US are not a 'one size fits all' thing. I've known 'less than wealthy' children with appalling manners and a sense of entitlement and wealthy children who are helpful and considerate. Coming from money doesn't automatically make a rude, entitled child. Parents (wealthy or poor) do.

The fact is that different parents have different expectations. My sons were raised to say please/thank you/may I be excused and to be helpful when they are a guest. I expected that as a minimum from their friends. I found that most of them simply 'got with the program' when given clear and polite instructions. Don't make a big deal with this friend, just say firmly (as others have posted); "Please take your dishes to the sink" or "Please clean up your things before you go upstairs". As far as getting up from the table, I would probably let that slide unless my child wasn't finished, then I'd probably say "

[Ozgirl75]

My children always ask if they can get down, and know to stay at the table until everyone is finished. I thought that was pretty standard table manners to be honest.

[IDontEatFriedTurtle]

Windy I grew up in the States and unless she's straight out of Gossip Girl her behaviour is NOT normal



I didn't even use my friend's first names! "yes, ma'am" "no, sir", "Of course Ms Jones".

Honestly, the weird shit people come out with on MN about the states! If you have friends who have taught their children to be arseholes, it's down to the sort of people you hang out with. It's very much not an "American thing". Entirely possible it's a more money than sense thing.

[IDontEatFriedTurtle]

*my friend's parents' first names.

[Immigrantsong]

Sorry but I really don't agree with all the comments from PPs about Greeks (being a Greek myself). Good manners are highly praised and desired in all and drilled in children from a young age. So don't take a couple of comments as a sweeping generalisation of a whole nation's manner decorum.