To think my brother should be paying for his childcare?

[goodnamesweretaken]

My older brother had a baby this year, and my mother moved from the south up to Scotland in order to be closer to him, his baby and his wife. It's her first grandchild (none from me quite yet ;) !) so she was really excited to be around. Property was cheaper up there too, so she got rid of her mortgage and bought a little cottage a short drive from them.

Her plan was to get a part time job there, and then care for the baby a couple of days a week. However, since she arrived about 9 months ago, she hasn't got work, instead looking after the child from 8-5 every day whilst he works from home and his wife is out at the office.

She doesn't have a lot of money, and is not on any kind of benefits, so is just chewing through her remaining savings, of which I know there is not much. AIBU to think that my brother and his wife, who both earn decent money, should be paying her something for the childcare she is providing? It seems to me she is effectively subsidising their lifestyle, and not standing up for herself. What can I do - I have tried to talk to my brother gently about it but he becomes extremely defensive and goes on about how stressed he is and how difficult his life is. I have tried to encourage my mother to get a job but she seems to have lost all confidence since she moved. She doesn't feel able to ask them for any money.

[goodnamesweretaken]

It needs to come from your mum, if you tell him he’s taking the piss and he goes running back to her to complain you will be the baddy here.

Yes, I agree, it has to come from her. So, mumsnetters, how do you get a woman who just wants to give give give give give give to be more assertive?

I am definitely going to show her that information on National Insurance contributions, so thanks for that guys. I know she took time out to raise us but I hope she has enough contributory years... but important nonetheless.

[BewareOfDragons]

I have tried to talk to my brother gently about it but he becomes extremely defensive and goes on about how stressed he is and how difficult his life is. I have tried to encourage my mother to get a job but she seems to have lost all confidence since she moved. She doesn't feel able to ask them for any money.

Your brother is a selfish ass. So is his wife. Surely they know they are taking advantage. Ask him flat out if he's planning to take her in when she runs out of savings and can't afford, food, heat, to run a car, etc.

Your mother is being an ostrich. Ask her what she's planning to do when she runs out of savings. Tell her flat out that you won't be taking her in and that you can't help her financially if she runs out of money because she couldn't speak up for herself. she's a grown up. She knows she needs to work. She knows she needs income. Either her son and DiL should be paying for her provision of FULL TIME childcare or she needs to tell them she's done as she needs an income, otherwise she'll be moving in with them.

[Graphista]

Found a link that may prove useful:

www.grandparentsplus.org.uk/Pages/FAQs/Category/providing-childcare

Yes I don't understand the MYOB posts either. Taking advantage of my mum for childcare she's not fit to provide is one of the reasons I'm nc with my sister. Mum has with my support and support from others become gradually more assertive and is saying no more often.

At the VERY LEAST they should be covering out of pocket expenses and accommodating her job hunting.

[constantlyseekinghappiness]

I understand this completely.

My mother acted as free childcare for my brothers 2 children. When she injured herself and couldn’t get out and about to get shops/cook etc he was very quiet I’m forgetting that and even quicker contacting me to tell me to do those things for her.

Some people have no consideration of how much they take from others. Your brother should be thinking about your mothers position and not only of himself.

My brother fell out with me when I brought t up.

Good luck!!

[wisterialanes]

The amount of gp's I know who are being taken advantage of like this is shocking. Quite a few of DM's friends retired and committed to looking after the dgc 1/2 days per week. Most of them eventually ended up looking after them full time as their DC guilt tripped them into it and then went on to have more dc. One of them looks after them ft, quite a lot of overnights at weekends and then her DC 'needs adult time' with her dh so goes off twice a year for a week. She is run ragged but feels there is no point in saying anything.

[Mookatron]

It's all very well saying 'mind your own business' but you will be expected to support your mother if she needs it when she's elderly I'm sure (and would not want to see her destitute).

We parents all know how difficult the work/childcare thing is financially but most people just have to suck it up one way or another. Your brother probably knows this but it is just too convenient to change. Plus - and this is really worth thinking about - IS the situation exactly as your mother describes it? Does your brother work from home and leave the childcare entirely to your mother or is it not quite as clear cut as that?

[category12]

Perhaps go up and see your mum face to face and then have a family get-together with brother. Obviously she needs to wake up to the fact she's burning through her savings and potentially damaging her pension. So does he. Either they need to find alternative childcare some of the days so she can work, or they need to be paying her.

[Winebottle]

She moved up there, she agreed to look after the kids, she didn't get a job. You can't blame your brother for that. If it is no longer working for her, its up to her to change it. There is nothing you can do other than advise her.

[iamyourequal]

Hi OP What kind of work was/ is your mum looking for/ qualified to do?

[norfolkenclue]

@Winebottle are you the CF SIL?

[Farmerswife36]

If she has offered the childcare the that's her decision . It's not something I'd think is the done thing paying grandparents to do childcare they have offered . I'm sorry but YABU and need to keep out of it . It's there arrangement and nothing to do with you

[Farmerswife36]

I'm guessing you have no kids yet and have no understanding just how tough the whole work/ kids balance is ? It's bloody hard work and until you are in that situation you really should not judge

[Fishface77]

Tell your mum to say she needs to move in with them as she can’t afford to run her house and subsidise theirs. Tell her to make out she’s really excited and when she’s older it’ll be easier for them to look after her!

See how quick they start paying her then.

[Lemonnaise]

I'm guessing you have no kids yet and have no understanding just how tough the whole work/ kids balance is ? It's bloody hard work and until you are in that situation you really should not judge

Sorry, what? I have kids and I wouldn't dream of asking anyone to look after MY kids 8-5 everyday for FREE. You obviously think it's ok to take the piss out of people who probably find it hard to say no to people.

[Farmerswife36]

Lemonaise I'm afraid to say I pay a childminder 800 pound per month every month ! Sorry if you think that's taking the piss ? If my mum offered childcare then she would never ever dream of wanting to be paid ! I however do not have the luxury of having a mum or free childcare

[Farmerswife36]

When my mum was alive she had my dd twice a week and LOVED it !! I'd give anything to have my mum back ! Please think wisely before you judge

[wisterialanes]

farmers wife it is comments like that that guilt trip gp's into providing FREE ft childcare. Funnily enough gp's have raised their own DC so most often do know how hard it is to get a work/life balance . The OP's db is refusing to even discuss it which makes him a CF in my book.

[category12]

But would you seriously let your mum burn through her savings and risk an uncertain future to give you free childcare, farmerswife36?

[Farmerswife36]

Good job I pay a childminder extortionate amounts each month then ain't it

[Farmerswife36]

All I'm saying is it sounds like the mother in this post has OFFERED to look after dgc and it's noones business but the parents and the grandparent .

[category12]

It's the op's business if her mum is getting herself in a financial pickle because of her brother.

[Farmerswife36]

Ok then . Night night

[turnaroundbrighteyes]

Thing is though if your brother were paying an ofsted registered childminder he .at be able to claim tax credits or childcare vouchers to cover most of the cost. Or free hours depending on the age of the child.

Are you sure it's not your Mum insisting he use her instead? Especially given that she chose to move closer, doesn't sound like something she'd chose to do without being pretty determined to look after her dgc.

It's not his fault that she chooses no to find paid employment.

Could the defensiveness be that he'd rather use alternative childcare or that he cant afford to pay her without the subsidies he'd get if a qualified childminder were looking after his dc.

Afraid I'm in the noyb camp and wonder if she's enjoying your sympathies AND looking after her dgc.

[goodnamesweretaken]

*



I'm guessing you have no kids yet and have no understanding just how tough the whole work/ kids balance is
Indeed I do not. However, I've got plenty of friends who do, and I know their struggle to balance work and home, and what a bloody hard slog it is with tough decisions to be made. I also know they don't expect a free ride, and adjust their lifestyles accordingly...because it's their child and their responsibility.


Are you sure it's not your Mum insisting he use her instead

Nope, she has suggested nursery a few days a week to provide some more socialising for baby. So far, nothing.

Thanks for advice all, varied and interesting! Agree there's nothing I can do to influence her other than offer advice. She did indeed make the choice and moved there to do the childcare 2 days a week (and spend time with her gorgeous gc), however she definitely didn't expect to be doing five.

I shall be giving her some urgent jobsearch help and perhaps some assertiveness lessons! If she's working, which she must, they'll have to find an alternative and give her her own time.

Thanks!

[Graphista]

Farmerswife plenty of us responding DO have children and have done or are doing the work/life balance thing - I STILL wouldn't have used my mother in this way nor abused her goodwill. It's a total pisstake! If the grandparent is fairly wealthy and can afford to offer the care for free AND are physically fit to do it (I've been a nanny and childminder it's very much a young/fit persons 'game') then it's the grandparents choice to agree to that but any decent adult child would not PRESUME

Fishface's idea is PERFECT!

Or granny could present her son with an itemised bill!