To want everyone's earnings and tax records to be public information

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

I think it would be very modern and progressive if the UK government changed the law to make people's income and tax public information. Would probably raise a few billions more and make people less likely to do those dodgy tax avoidance schemes.

[LunasSpectreSpecs]

No - you can fuck right off with that idea. I don't want my neghbours looking up to see what I earn, or casual acquaintances from school, or members of my extended family.

It's private.

[MuseumOfCurry]

Talkin - so what? No one has said that this invasion of privacy hinges on people knowing your 'gift income', in fact you're the only person who's mentioned it.

[sparechange]

Talkin
I wouldn't say loads of contact
DH and I submit an annual tax return and get the corresponding bill, rebate or nothing back from them, but I've only found them to be easy to deal with and efficient at letting me know when I owe them money

But the suggestion you and OP that they are under resourced when supporting the idea of publishing earnings - does that mean you are in favour of citizen tax collectors supplementing the work of HMRC by trawling through tax records and flagging up anyone they think has underpaid...?

[OldWitch00]

I live in BC Canada. And the income of all public servants (teachers to doctors to firemen....) who earn over $100,000 are published annually. The tax breaks are many and varied.

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

Hmrc underfunded and a mess is a separate issue, this isn't to enable vigilante and it wouldn't really be possible as it's controlled who it is released to.

The BBC now report wages for some and public pay grades are published. So it's not a totally alien concept.

[bluebells1]

OK, so would this also mean that the people who are on Benefits will also have their names published? People on Disability? Where will this end? Too many people already know the salary of someone working in a private firm: Boss, HR, IT-Payroll, HMRC etc.

[MuseumOfCurry]

The BBC now report wages for some and public pay grades are published. So it's not a totally alien concept.

It is in that you're free to not work for the BBC.

[MuseumOfCurry]

And I get that the OP doesn't believe that wealthy people are entitled to privacy, fair enough - they're vile tax dodgers, but surely you'd like to protect the privacy of all the people claiming benefits? That would be awfully embarrassing I'd think.

[Nikephorus]

So you think it would be great for everyone's earnings to be public knowledge but you won't give us yours? Interesting concept.

[Ta1kinPeace]

sparechange
does that mean you are in favour of citizen tax collectors supplementing the work of HMRC by trawling through tax records and flagging up anyone they think has underpaid
Nope
Because I know from bitter experience in the case of Eric Pickles' "armchair auditors"
that the bulk of the nosey parkers are ill informed and willing only to grasp the wrong end of the stick.

The evidence from Scandinavia is that once those who search lost anonymity, most of the searchers were journalists, employment agencies and headhunters.
Most other people really CBA

The impact it does have is to remind employers to treat all employees fairly.
Lads in sharp suits bullshitting about how much their current employer pays them while job hunting for example.

Remember that a huge number of employees effectively already have their salaries published because of public sector transparency rules
and it really makes very little difference to people's lives

but it DOES make the decisions of employers more transparent
I really do not see why people are so averse to it.

And for those of us with multiple income streams
yup it might make people a bit more careful about how aggressively they decide to "tax plan"

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

And I get that the OP doesn't believe that wealthy people are entitled to privacy

for you! It's clear from the outset that I said everyone. But you just carry on making stuff up.

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

And also I didn't for a second say or insinuate that all wealthy people were tax Dodgers, I even gave examples of billionaires that do pay tax due.

[Ta1kinPeace]

OK, so would this also mean that the people who are on Benefits will also have their names published? People on Disability? Where will this end?
Why? Its not a tax return item.
The rates are published on the DWP website.

The Scandinavian model is tax returns
and as per the Budget training I was on this morning
in 2015/16 only 57% of the UK adult population paid income tax .....

[sparechange]

OP,
Can I please ask one last time for you to explain how this would 'make people less likely to do dodgy tax avoidance schemes'?

Because loads of people have asked you, and you haven't given an answer

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

*but it DOES make the decisions of employers more transparent
I really do not see why people are so averse to it. *

I don't think many people here are of the the mindset to get it, judging by the amount of times I've been called nosy. As you said it's just about making people aware that the information is only just a phone call away. I can't think of a time in my life so far I ever would have used it if it existed.

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

It's been answered many times, most recently a few posts up by talk.

[LunasSpectreSpecs]

So Tax returns are useful but not particularly intrusive. Only those who do not deal with them think they are.

That depends though, doesn't it. DH and I both do tax returns. I do mine because I'm self employed as a freelancer and my profit for the year is my income. I also have to declare whether I have income from rental property, or how much interest I get on my bank accounts or how much money I have earned overseas.

DH is a high earner and also does a tax return - lists his income, what he's paid already through PAYE in terms of income tax and national insurance along with other things like as car allowance, private healthcare benefits etc etc etc.

There's lots of personal info on there and it should totally remain private!

[Usernamegone]

No, no, no I wouldn’t want everyone to be able to see how much I earn. For what it’s worth I have a single job and pay all my takes via PAYE. However, having my salary details would allow members of my family emotionally abuse me by bully me for constant hand outs. I’ve previously ended up in debt because of their constant bullying demands.

[Ta1kinPeace]

sparechange
how this would 'make people less likely to do dodgy tax avoidance schemes'?
As an example,
the folks living on false loans from Mauritius companies ..... Journalists would look them up and blow the whistle
As another example
the folks who run a company that owns their home and provides everything for them - the mismatch between declared income and lifestyle would be there for investigators to see

There are some REALLY good people at HMRC
they would be able to see what other sections of the organisation had nodded through in exchange for plummy jobs later Dave Hartnett

Daylight is the best disinfectant.
It does work in all fields - including tax compliance.

[Ta1kinPeace]

username
However, having my salary details would allow members of my family emotionally abuse me by bully me for constant hand outs. I’ve previously ended up in debt because of their constant bullying demands.
If they used Government data to harass you, it would be a police matter.
Same as it already is when people harass public servants personally when their details are published.

[Natsku]

The Scandinavian model is tax returns

Here in Finland benefits are listed on tax returns because we pay taxes on (most of) our benefits). My tax return, if anyone was really interested enough to go to a tax office to use one of their special computers to look it up (can't look it up from home, you have to go there) would see the 10k I get in unemployment benefits and the 2k of that I pay in taxes. Really not fussed about anyone seeing that. Hmm I actually thought I got more money than that in a year!

[sparechange]

Talk
With all the will in the world, journalists are only going to look them up if they are remotely high profile or in the public eye
13 MILLION files were leaked in the paradise papers, and about 6 people were named and shamed because of it...

They aren't going to do anything about anyone else. Newspapers are even more under resourced than you think HMRC are...
So to suggest there should be an expensive system established, maintained and resourced to shame a handful of people a year is utterly ludicrous

Anyone who cares passionately about increasing HMRC coffers would surely argue for that money to be spent increasing the frontline staff at HMRC before spending it on a public database.

There are also quite a few contradictions in your posts. On the one hand, tax returns show very little and we have nothing to worry about

On the other, they will provide detailed information of legal but potentially immoral AND illegal schemes, for our merry band of volunteer accountants to investigate and bring to justice, even though those very same numbers will have been waved in front of the noses of actual tax inspectors already.

And 'armchair auditors' are a nightmare, but armchair investigative reporters are the answer to our budget deficits?

[Usernamegone]

I don’t really want to have to report family members to the police for harassment and it is normally always via nasty manipulative phone calls or in person (so I would have to record conversations otherwise it would be my word against theirs). It is easier just not to give them any information either in person or via social media. They trawl social media for information so something as innocent as a friend taking me out for a treat for my birthday and tagging on Facebook has provoked a barrage of begging phone calls - as oviously if I can afford to leave the house then I must give them money when they demand it.

FWIW I’m a basic rate tax payer so I’m not on squilions)

[sparechange]

And nice try, OP!

You haven't answered the question about how it would reduce tax avoidance. You've let others give their thoughts on it, but don't actually seem to know yourself how your grand idea would work in practice...

[BewareOfDragons]

Publicly held corporations, yes.

Private individuals, no.