To want everyone's earnings and tax records to be public information

[Itsgonnabeacoldone]

I think it would be very modern and progressive if the UK government changed the law to make people's income and tax public information. Would probably raise a few billions more and make people less likely to do those dodgy tax avoidance schemes.

[TheVoiceOfTreason]

Yes, you are being completely unreasonable. It would raise a myriad range of problems, including good earners who have parasites for relatives having a miserable time trying to fend off begging requests of "oh but I know you can afford it", fraudsters finding targets more easily, all kinds of things like that.

Wanting everyone to pay their proper taxes is a different ball game entirely. But the way to do that is to cut down on the legal opportunities for tax avoidance, and to actually go after people more aggressively for tax evasion (not the same thing as tax avoidance), because ATM if you get caught for tax evasion HMRC rarely prosecute because it's so expensive, they just make you pay the extra tax you owe, so a lot of people perceive it's worth the risk...

[DivisionBelle]

The privacy of those of us on bog standard PAYE would be invaded whilst The income and tax of those who avoid and evade would still remain hidden.

[falange]

Yabu myob.

[Natsku]

also if we are publishing everyone's income the slippery slope argument is that those receiving benefits also have theirs published IMO

Only if the benefits are taxable, untaxed benefits would have no reason to be included on tax returns (for instance my child benefit, disability benefit and child support benefit are not included on my public tax return but my unemployment benefit is)

[Johnnycomelately1]

I wonder if offshore wages are allowed that easily.

No, and in any case only if the work takes place outside the UK- for example if you were a UK resident and were paid as a non-exec for a company that held it's board meetings in Bermuda you could ask to be paid in Bermuda, but as a UK based/ UK resident employee you can't just decide to ask for your wages to get paid into a Bermudan bank account and not pay any tax. It's actually pretty hard to avoid tax if you are an employee (i.e. paid through PAYE). The myth that investment bankers don't pay tax is just that. They're employees and their tax is deducted at source. Even if they have losses on other income streams, losses are typically not transferable across income categories (you can't offset property losses against the earnings of your employment, for example).

Tax avoidance largely concerns the self-employed and companies with an international span, purely because of how international tax law works and the greater ability to use non-cash charges across jurisdictions and employ internal pricing models.

I wouldn't mind earnings and tax records being public record, with the proviso that you can also see who has looked at it (bit like Linked In).

[Engorged]

No thank you. As a public sector worker with no negotiations for pay rises I can assure you that many of us would leave in droves.

It's one thing to know you are paid more in private sector and convince yourself things like working to help people, pension shitter by the year, sick and annual leave balance in out. It's another to see the reality staring you in the facentre, mocking you.

[MistressDeeCee]

So that people like you can nose into your family friends and neighbours' financial information, OP? No thanks

[Justanotherlurker]

The economy has been built on asset wealth for decades now @Ta1kinPeace and will continue on that trajectory for decades to come.

But aside from that, have you managed to find the data to back up your assertions, in between your posting on MN budget report?

[Ta1kinPeace]

piffle
But some of the richest people live on capital so would show no income at all

[Rebeccaslicker]

Piffle that was naughty

[PiffleandWiffle]

I think it's a great idea OP, it'd give people an idea who not to invite out for meals as the poor would be more likely to not want to split the bill.....

[grins]

Thought I could choose who I could respond to?

As lurker says, it’s anecdotal and therefore adds little value to the debate.

Let’s see your source or just admit you made it up expecting not to be called on it.

[Justanotherlurker]

I'm asking for raw numbers, not personal anecdotes is how I answer that poster.

You proffered to have the data, I'm interested in seeing it, nothing more nothing less

[OldWitch00]

but knowing XYZ's wage within the workplace is 100% fine. I just don't see the benefit to my old next door neighbor from childhood benefiting from the info.
but it would be difficult to compare lulu lemon's wages to gap wages not knowing the employee benefits...or west jet vs air Canada (and how would you do this if you don't have a list of first and last names or other identifiers....doing family tree research don't get me going on family names)

[Ta1kinPeace]

lurker
As I said, I'll find it in due course.

How do you respond to the points made by lostsight ?

[Justanotherlurker]

Have to agree with grins here I'm afraid, those articles don't back up your assertions.

I've got api access and still can't find anything, was it a link to an external report somewhere as I've excluded those?

[eurochick]

I'd welcome it. Transparency is the biggest thing we can do now to improve equality in pay. The BBC is a case in point.

[Ta1kinPeace]

Grins
I'll find it at some stage : I have to write a budget report for a board meeting.

You have yet to respond to Lostsight
Do you accept the points she makes ?

[Holowiwi]

No

And it will never happen in the UK

[grins]

Ta1kinPeace - another article which does not support your statement. Indeed it says the “evidence on full tax transparency is thin and mixed”.

[Ta1kinPeace]

Here is another of the articles about Scandinavian tax transparency
www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21722897-swiss-leaks-and-panama-papers-open-window-tax-dodgers-world

[Ta1kinPeace]

lurker / grins
Here is one of the articles - you'll need your login for it
www.economist.com/news/britain/21696965-evidence-full-tax-transparency-thin-and-mixed-when-less-more
I'm still trying to remember what the other was called.
had to nip out for curry supper earlier

[lljkk]

Flat tax systems always seem to grossly benefit the very few very well paid in comparison to the majority.

I just don’t see how listing that; ABC, income $76,000 taxes paid $22,000 tells or means anything. This could be part time work or work with overtime and bonus.

Coworkers will know most of which situation it is for ABC.

XYZ, income $14,000 taxes paid $2,000 could still have his wage being paid to an off shore account.

I wonder if offshore wages are allowed that easily.

[Iwanttobe8stoneagain]

And yes if I have to publish what I earn people receiving benefits should have that published too

[Iwanttobe8stoneagain]

No, all of a sudden I could see my co worker was earning more than me, people who keep an income secret from family would know. People who earn a lot would no doubt find themselves in receipt of numerous begging letters. Burglars and gold diggers would have a hit list. People can’t understand the tax system and everytime their taxable profit is different to their accounting profit they would probably be told they were doing a dodgy tax scheme!