Skip to main content
Skip to main navigation
Skip to talk navigation

Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Saved Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Flip

1 2 3

AIBU?

To want answers about aunties death?

67 replies

user263781638 · 04/11/2017 11:25

My auntie passed away in may, she’d been ill for a very long time. She was an alcoholic with liver failure, her death came whilst she had been admitted to hospital after being found on a park collapsed by a passer by from what the family have learnt she was having the usual fluids etc. And somehow managed to fall from the bed and bang her head, this caused a catastrophic bleed to the brain, if she was a fit and healthy individual I would imagine the damage would’ve have been as bad but her blood didn’t clot and she was declared brain dead a few hours later, she was 50 years old.
As a family we haven’t persuaded anything further as even though she was ill it was a very big shock and we couldn’t fault the hospitals care of her over the years she’d been ill, my gran just wants to leave it be, she was a single lady with no children and treated me and my sister as though we were her own, we was all very close.
For me I just want answers of why and how it happened I don’t want to ‘sue’ or anything like that, just an understanding of why? Nobody else in the family wants this but I feel I need to know. AIBU wanting to know why she died, even though my family don’t want to know?

OP posts:

Report

Quartz2208 · 04/11/2017 12:28

The thing is it probably happened so quickly and eye witness statements are notoriously unreliable that there is no way of knowing how she fell out of bed.

Also the fall was likely to be something that healthy people would survive

There is no answer sometimes to why things happen and this I think is one of them.

What do you want from finding out?

C4Envelope · 04/11/2017 12:31

Seen it so often, bed rails and bumpers and one to one nursing can still fail to keep a patient safe if they are disoriented/confused/withdrawing... my take on it is that understaffing does tend to be an issue as we cry out for staff to be able to do cohort nursing. But even with these measures in place some patients manage to injure themselves and those caring for them due to their confusion/withdrawal symptoms/disorientation.

C4Envelope · 04/11/2017 12:32

I do hope you manage to find out exactly what happened though, and it brings you peace enough to grieve. So sorry

Slowtrain2dawn · 04/11/2017 12:33

I’m sorry for your loss, I would want to know exactly how it happened too. I’m wondering why some posters can’t understand that really. PALs sounds like a good place to start. I really hope you get some answers so you can grieve.

Ginmakesitallok · 04/11/2017 12:33

Bed rails aren't used as much as they used to be. They are actually more dangerous if someone tries to climb over them. Sorry for your loss.

The hospital will likely have reported this as an incident , if you ask you might be able to get a copy of the report.

BlackBanana · 04/11/2017 12:35

I just want to know exactly what happened as in my head I just can’t grasp how this could’ve happened?

She tried to climb out of bed and fell. Where is the mystery? What are you struggling with?
You keep saying you don't want to blame anyone but that isn't what it sounds like at all.

user263781638 · 04/11/2017 12:36

I want to know how she fell out of bed and her frame of mind at the time, I am not saying the nurse is responsible at all!
If I found out she was climbing from the bed trying to leave etc or she just rolled out it would give me closure, basically I want to know what state she was in just before she died, yes it won’t change anything but it would help me understand a bit more. She was ready to be discharged.

OP posts:

user263781638 · 04/11/2017 12:37

Black we don’t know if she did try to climb out of bed!!!!!

OP posts:

frumpety · 04/11/2017 12:38

I will give you a scenario that might explain how people can fall even with a nurse present .
Nurse is standing next to patients bed , getting medication out , patient suddenly sits up in bed and swings legs round so that they are sitting on the bed facing away from nurse , they say they feel sick , nurse turns away from patient to get sick bowl and patient faints and falls forwards off the bed to the floor. Patient is usually fit and healthy and has never previously fainted or complained of feeling dizzy when sitting or standing . The whole incident takes 5 seconds .

user1471531877 · 04/11/2017 12:39

It sounds like you would like an investigation surrounding how an alcoholic and probably disorientated person with one to one nursing fell out of bed .
This of course will take up a lot of resources and some poor sucker will be found responsible and then what would you like to happen ?
It's seems pretty obvious how she could have fallen out of bed and she probably had a previous fall too which equally could have caused the bleed.
What outcome are you hoping for because the cause of her death was whatever caused this poor lady to become an alcoholic in the first place.

BlackBanana · 04/11/2017 12:44

Black we don’t know if she did try to climb out of bed!!!!!

She fell out of bed. There are not many other ways to do that. I suppose she could have rolled off in her sleep.
But "she fell out of bed" IS the explanation.

Arriettyborrower · 04/11/2017 12:45

In my trust we would carry out a serious incident investigation to look at how/why it happened and what learning could come of it. This would be shared with the family from the start.

She would be have been very high risk of falling, I would expect adequate risk assessments and measures to have been taken such as low rise bed, bed rails, detox, and specialling if required. Any investigation would be looking at all of this - but sometimes, no matter what is put in place, falls can not prevented.

Sorry for your loss x

frumpety · 04/11/2017 12:46

Sorry OP , I am bit confused , so your Aunt was found collapsed in a park and was taken to hospital , where within hours of arriving she had had a fall and subsequently died , yet she was about to be discharged , even though her bloods would have suggested otherwise ?

As User said , it might be possible that a fall in the park might have been the catalyst for the bleed ?

Winebottle · 04/11/2017 12:48

The trouble with why questions is you can always keep asking why. If you find out that she was trying to climb over the bed, then why was she trying to climb over the bed? You can go on for ever.

In the end you just have accept that something happen because it did and leave it at that. I would accept the level of detail you have.

user263781638 · 04/11/2017 12:49

She was found passed out on a bench through drinking, not a fall. She was admitted bloods where taken etc. She was getting discharged as it’s happened plenty times before, she was just drunk. She’s fell out of bed banged her head and as a result died. I know all this I want to know what state she was in when they was discharging her. For my own peace of mind..

OP posts:

pret · 04/11/2017 12:50

Is it possible she had already hit her head when she collapsed in the park?
Unfortunately alcoholics fall over a lot. This is how my relative died.

I’m sorry for your loss.

deblet · 04/11/2017 12:50

My husband's parents died on the same ward 20 months apart both through the hospital's negligence. My sis in laws were not interested in asking why and they all let it go when their mum did but when fil died my husband made a complaint. He fell out of bed and banged his head when the staff knew he needed to be watched and had put him in a side room away from the nurses station. The coroner was very angry and the hospital lawyer did not even try to defend the hospital. It was worth the complaint because the ward introduced new policies so maybe we have saved somebody else. I would hope so. It is always worth asking the questions OP

BrokenBattleDroid · 04/11/2017 12:58

I think speaking to PALS is the best advice given above by a PP. You can explain that it's not a complaint, but you really want to know the circumstances surrounding your aunt's fall in order to get some closure. Ask if there is report in her notes from the nurse that explains what happened. Be prepared for it to go nowhere though, and even if it does, for there to be a wait.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/11/2017 12:59

Was there an inquest, OP? I know some incidents in hospitals would trigger one, though I'm not sure about this

If there was, I imagine the coroner's office might be prepared to talk it through, though any approach would probably have to be made by the next of kin

hiyasminitsme · 04/11/2017 13:01

You're not unreasonable, but the answer is that it was an accident. There's lots of evidence that cot side type bed rails can cause more injuries than they prevent. The nurse may not have been in time to catch her or may not have been able to do so without injuring herself.

What else do you want to know? The reason that she died was that she had an accidental fall and her body was weakened from years of alcohol abuse. I'm not sure what other answers you can get.

melj1213 · 04/11/2017 13:05

I want to know what state she was in when they was discharging her. For my own peace of mind

As far as they were concerned she was in a fit enough state to be discharged. If she was medically fit to be discharged then they have no reason to keep her in. That doesn't mean that she was in perfect health, but if there is nothing acutely wrong then she is fit for discharge.

Despite that, she could have been disoriented - if she passed out on a park bench then woke up in the hospital she could have tried to get up and fallen over as she was confused about where she was; she could have misjudged the height of the bed; maybe she wasn't aware of her surroundings so got confused and overbalanced; maybe she lost her footing as she stood up as she wasn't balanced; maybe she felt sick and tried to get up quickly to try to get to the bathroom and fell because she moved too quickly; maybe she felt dizzy and fainted when she got up ... the reasons are endless and the only person who could tell you exactly what happened, unfortunately is no longer here to tell you.

LivLemler · 04/11/2017 13:08

I am sorry for your loss, and I imagine I would want all of the answers too. However, unfortunately as you are not next of kin I think you need to let it go. If your gran doesn't want to ask questions and open that wound, as it were, I think you need to respect her on that.

hiyasminitsme · 04/11/2017 13:10

I mean this in the kindest possible way, but I think you need to move on - with help from a counsellor if necessary. It was an accident. How is it going to help you - if you knew she was distressed and trying to climb out of the bed will that give you closure? why would it help?

it is incredibly difficult to deal with a relative who destroys themself through addiction, but that's basically what your aunt did.

Stoptherideiwannagetoff · 04/11/2017 13:11

I agree with Nottheduchess - as a card carrying alcoholic with liver failure, any injury was likely to result in her death. You simply cannot abuse the body to that extreme and expect in to perform normally. Have recently had this in our family and the amount of people asking the cause of death was ridiculous. Er, alcoholism actually... poisoned themselves to death don't you know. Sad, but not a mystery...

SnipSnipMrBurgess · 04/11/2017 13:22

No offence meant by this but her state of mind was one of a disoriented drunk sobering up and probably trying to get out of the bed.

No one is to blame here.

Flip

1 2 3

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.