To ask what exactly is wrong with a '1950 s ' style education .

[mountford100]

I have just come across a thread on the Secondary Education board that suggests a couple of grammar schools are like travelling back to the 1950 s !

Does that mean they expect pupils to behave (not answer back) , work to their best of the ability do their homework, wear correct uniform at all times.
A school that has little or no time for a child seeking excuses as to why they can not abide with basic rules.

Why does there has to be a mitigating reason as why a child misbehaves other than just bad behaviour.

I am extremely grateful i was educated in a grammar school operating with many 1950 s principles (this is despite being near the bottom of the year) .

[mountford100]

I don't know maybe your DD will go to work in the Fabric Industry and may be responsible for putting images on the fabric !

Brocade: Shuttle Woven Fabrics

Adumbrate: To produce a faint image.

[mountford100]

DS SORRY..

[Ceto]

I'll admit to actually having been educated in the 1950s and 60s. For me, my main memory is acres of boredom. We were placed in rows and there was an awful lot of rote learning; the only reason I got through the reading scheme quickly was because I wanted to escape the horror of Janet and John. Later, I spent far too much time reading surreptitiously under my desk.

However, looking back, I probably got the best of it because I was reasonably OK academically. There were children in my class who clearly had learning difficulties but were never diagnosed; term after term, because exam results were put up in order of merit, they had to see themselves constantly at the bottom of those lists, because they had no extra help whatsoever. I remember one in particular who was a brilliant actress; I don't understand how the teachers reconciled that with their obvious belief that she was really thick. In fact, she stunned the English teacher by getting an A in her O levels.

And, contrary to the frequently expressed belief that being in a school that is strict about uniform prepares you for dress codes as an adult, all it achieved for me was a firm view that it's more important to be comfortable and individualist than ultra-smart and conformist.

[Dixiestampsagain]

A 50s style education in my subject (Music) would have meant sitting at a desk learning ABOUT music rather than getting involved and learning through ‘doing’- playing, singing, composing, listening and appraising etc. I’m sure there were some lovely renditions of ‘Who is Sylvia’ (which, according to my Mum, is all they ever sang in school- btw haven’t a clue who Sylvia is) and I’m sure they all listened to a few of Beethoven’s greatest hits and learned to draw a treble clef, but I’m not sure it was very ‘skill’ based, as with many other subjects.

[YogiYoni]

Do you feel your education is now over OP or are you willing to keep learning?

If so, allow me to help...

1. you do not need to put a space before a piece of punctuation.
   
   
2. when quoting a previous poster, it is very helpful to put their words in bold to show they are quotations. You do this by putting a * in front and after them.

[sashh]

OP

I'm going to start a society for the protection and preservation of exclamation marks.

I'm a bit surprised at your dyslexia, I've not come across one that affects grammar and punctuation, usually it is spelling.

As for 1950s education, my mother went to a grammar in the 1950s, it gave her an impressive amount of self importance even though she left at 15 with no qualifications.

She also 'knew' a lot of 'facts'. Now that is no good for the modern world where things you learn as 'facts' change, you need to learn about why and how things change eg my mother would be able to tell you the planets in the solar system, all 9.

But Pluto isn't a planet any more and the debate about whether it should be and whether another 90+ KPO should be called 'planets' or even if the Earth is a planet according to the 2006 definition is all much more interesting, relevant to modern day and shifts with new knowledge.

[Kokeshi123]

But Pluto isn't a planet any more and the debate about whether it should be and whether another 90+ KPO should be called 'planets' or even if the Earth is a planet according to the 2006 definition is all much more interesting, relevant to modern day and shifts with new knowledge.

Sure. But the thing is, you can't even begin to have that whole interesting discussion unless you know a) what planets are b) how many planets there were believed to be until recently c) how many planets there are considered to be now.

Knowledge is a bit like money. It's easy to say "It doesn't really matter" if you have plenty of it and have always taken it for granted....

[Kokeshi123]

50s education was a mixed bag. It wasn't all "traditional" either--the Look and Say reading methods was the new thing back then (and it was awful). Traditional old-school clunky phonics wasn't great either. I think modern reading methods are far better. I am also very glad that grammar schools mostly went out and that the plan to bring them back appears to be dead in the water.

That said, a knowledge-based curriculum, drilling basic skills and being clear about the fact that education can't all be about the "fun" bits, also have their value!

[MargaretRiver]

OP, you talk about Comprehensives and Secondary Moderns as though they are the same thing, but they are not at all.

A secondary modern was like a comprehensive but with the Top Sets skimmed off, along with the facilities and teachers to teach to the top levels.
There was no opportunity to be stretched if you were able to improve in a subject after age 11.
Nor to be, say mediocre at English and History but still be in the Top Sets for Physics and Maths.

A Comprehensive is more like a Grammar and a Secondary Modern combined, with flexibility between the two.

I realise that nowadays the other schools in grammar school selection areas call themselves Comprehensives, but they are really Secondary Moderns.
Comprehensive means "all inclusive", not "with the best bits picked out"

[whiteroseredrose]

Comprehensive means "all inclusive", not "with the best bits picked out"

Interesting. Two schools here. The middle classes fight to get their bright DC into one and avoid the other like the plague. So the 'plague' one does have 'the best bits picked out' too.

[BertrandRussell]

I don't think "best bits" and "middle class children"are necessarily synonyms...

[coconuttella]

So the students I know with level 3 Business Btecs studying law at Uni - waste of time Broadly yes. They won't be getting silks will they? They might get a bit of paraleagal work or conveyancing

What a stupid comment... so unless you become a QC you’ve wasted your time studying law? Conveyancing and paralegal work are perfectly good skilled jobs that society needs.

[mountford100]

Margaret. I suggest that when you look at schools like Harrop Fold in East Manchester, the education being received and the cohort of children is similar to a secondary modern school. However, schools such as Parmiters in Hertfordshire are actually grammar schools. This is despite similarly being designated as a comprehensive school.

[mountford100]

I think some peoples understanding of Dyslexia and how it affects people with regards to their use of grammar, punctuation and Exclamation marks is totally flawed !

www2.le.ac.uk/offices/accessability/staff/accessabilitytutors/information-for-accessability-tutors/how-does-dyslexia-impact-on-the-writing-pr

[mountford100]

www2.le.ac.uk/offices/accessability/staff/accessabilitytutors/information-for-accessability-tutors/how-does-dyslexia-impact-on-the-writing-process-and-how-does-the-assessed-work-cover-sheet-work

[WhooooAmI24601]

I work in a Reception class and can hand on heart say that a 1950's education isn't a good thing any more because it simply doesn't fit many of the children in each class. Our knowledge and understanding of how many children now learn has increased so we've tailored our education system to allow as many children to succeed as possible. It would be like asking "why don't we still use 1950's science?". Because we simply know more.

On a personal note, I have one child with ASD. In the 1950's he'd have been caned or hurt for not always keeping himself still and quiet in class. He copes beautifully in a mainstream school the vast majority of the time. He wouldn't have coped for a day in 1950's education. As our understanding increases so, hopefully, does our ability to care for - and provide happier futures for - children who fifty, sixty years ago wouldn't have stood a chance of coping in society.

[Moussemoose]

mountford100

Dyslexia awareness and adapting teaching to help dyslexics is not always brilliant today. It was non existent in the 1950s. You long for a time where dyslexics were treated appallingly and regularly humiliated.

So you want us to excuse your errors because you are dyslexic while you want this humiliation of dyslexic children to be brought back!

1950s style learning was not good for the vast majority of people with any form of learning need.

Proofreading is harder if you are dyslexic but you need to develop coping strategies. Skills you clearly weren't taught at school.

[WhooooAmI24601]

Pengggwn Absolutely. Especially the part about stricter parenting. Over the time I've taught reception (which is a relatively short time compared to many teachers) children's abilities to share, sit nicely, listen to each other and behave appropriately has decreased. So we spend a huge amount of time in Reception learning or re-learning those skills which should have come from home, which gives less time for the literacy skills to be embedded and strengthened. It makes sense that stronger parenting would make many teachers lives easier because they'd be able to support far more learning and far less behaviour management.

[Moussemoose]

Children's attention span. Pop over to threads about electronic devices at restaurants tables.

[Gilead]

Interesting Mountford. I removed my son from Parmiters due to bullying, from the Head, down. This was many years ago and things may have changed, but I doubt it.
Your view of comprehensives is; as stated earlier, erroneous. It's also awfully bloody snobby, and judging by your grammar, punctuation and sentence construction you have little to be snobby about.
You have little understanding of the comprehensive system and it's aims: promoting the educability of children regardless of ability or social background.
Do not have chapels ... Not the arts of dominating other people; not the arts of ruling, of killing, of acquiring land and capital ... It should teach the arts of human intercourse; the art of understanding other peoples lives and minds Virginia Woolf on a free education.
I was lucky enough to have attended the first Comprehensive School in London, the head being Dame Margaret Miles (for services to education). A woman who ensured that the girls in her school strove for social justice, equality and a free and fair education. She felt that Activisim was engaging in society and encouraged us to debate, to protest and most of all to educate. This we did, with relish, learning so much more than perhaps we would have done at the stuffy grammar school from which she had come.
For Mayfield she sought from the outset three vital criteria: firstly, that limits were not placed on a pupil about what she might achieve; secondly, that the pupil selected the path they wanted to follow to avoid selection being made by some authority decreeing that she should follow a particular course; and thirdly, undue value must not be placed on any branch of learning. Academic learning was respected and admired but not considered the only ‘good’. All types of knowledge had value even if it was not a value that could be clearly measured. Merit must not be assessed on a status scale where some subjects were deemed superior.
So, I suggest you do a touch of reading, a touch of finding out about things and take a long hard look at your assumptions. Comprehensive education at its best is a bloody good education.

[mountford100]

*Proofreading is harder if you are dyslexic but you need to develop coping strategies. Skills you clearly weren't taught at school.

Skills i developed when i was submitting essays online for the O.U. Proofreading takes me twice as long as everybody else !
I also got help in the from of a specialist mentor though DSA support .The mentor would double or triple check my essays before i would submit them.
Interestingly enough, no tutor in the six years i spent studying with the O.U brought up issues relating to my grammar , punctuation or usage of exclamation marks!