To ask what exactly is wrong with a '1950 s ' style education .

[mountford100]

I have just come across a thread on the Secondary Education board that suggests a couple of grammar schools are like travelling back to the 1950 s !

Does that mean they expect pupils to behave (not answer back) , work to their best of the ability do their homework, wear correct uniform at all times.
A school that has little or no time for a child seeking excuses as to why they can not abide with basic rules.

Why does there has to be a mitigating reason as why a child misbehaves other than just bad behaviour.

I am extremely grateful i was educated in a grammar school operating with many 1950 s principles (this is despite being near the bottom of the year) .

[LemonysSnicket]

I think it means not to be beaten, told to suck it up if bullied, and have special needs ignored ..... what a fucking weird post.

[MarklahMarklah]

There was a thread on here the other day where the OP was saying that her DC was 'singled out' by a teacher for a number of supposed misdemeanors. Many posters took the side of the teacher but I really struggled to understand how pink toes on socks (which would be hidden in shoes) were a problem. The uniform said black socks, but you can't see toes in shoes. If the teacher claims coloured toes on socks are distracting then I suspect there must be something wrong with the quality of teaching.
I'm not saying do away with all rules, but perhaps consider the necessity of such rules. Black socks fine. Black socks with coloured bands around the top/stripes/visible pattern - not acceptable. Socks which appear black when uniform is worn (shoes hiding coloured soles, heels or toes) - I don't see the problem.

I was educated in the 1970s/1980s and looking back, it left a lot to be desired - if you weren't in the top set then you might as well have not bothered.

[eddiemairswife]

I went to a London girls' grammar school in the 1950s and it suited me down to the ground. My lessons were interesting; my teachers were strict,but fair; I was not encouraged to be a housewife, but expected to go to University, which I did.

However, though an improvement on the old system of elementary schools for the many, and grammar schools for those who could pay the fees or win one of the rare scholarships, today's system of comprehensive education is much fairer. All of my children and grandchildren have attended their local comprehensives in various parts of the country and have thrived. And I feel they have received a wider social education than I did at the same age.

[misskelly]

You know what we actually need to do... look at why some countries manage to have well behaved, productive people without a 1950s attitude. Why do Scandinavian countries, Canada etc. often have stable, law abiding, pro-social children and the UK sometimes doesn’t?

It's quite simple really. If you look at the countries that have a decent society, by which I mean you can earn enough money to live a good life either from a decent welfare system or jobs. Affordable or free health care and social policies to reduce social exclusion and discourage discrimination, basically low inequality this is what you achieve. Sadly in the U.K. inequality has been increasing.

If you look at somewhere were there is massive inequality between the very rich and the very poor and there is a large group in the middle just getting by then you can expect poor health, lower educational attainment and high crime levels. What's the point of working hard at school if you can expect to just survive when you leave. You've got to have something to aim for. I don't think returning to a more draconian style of education will solve that.

[Spikeyball]

It was a time when children like mine were thought impossible to/not worth educating.
My mum went to grammar school in the 50's and left at 16 because she hated it.
My dad passed his 11+ but his family couldn't afford the uniform.

[BertrandRussell]

Public school for professionals and the ruling classes.
Grammar schools for middle managers, state school teachers and so on.
Secondary moderns for foremen and supervisors at the very top end and the rest cannon fodder
Most leaving school at 14, many with no qualifications. Many not actually going to school much at all.

It's likeeople who do past life regressions- they are always King George,-never the boy who ate the dung.

[mountford100]

Bertrand. I was Hanged at Newgate Prison for stealing a watch and handkerchief !

[user1487064897]

I'll just tell my daughter that her B-Tec in Biomedical sciences was a waste of time. In fact it'd suit me as she can jack in Biomedical Sciences degree that'll save me a bit of dough and she can work a minimum wage job because frankly her qualifications are worthless .

[viques]

In my grammar school the school thought it had done its bit for our future careers when they invited a man in from Barclays in to tell us about the joys of bank telling and data processing. I think we also had a woman in from the Royal Alexandra Nursing People. But no hint of academic opportunities, STEM, scholarship , work in the arts,drama,sport etc etc. My bright sister was told she could apply to University , but she should also apply for the local teacher training college as a 'fall back'. I was going through a bit of a rebel phase and ripped up my UCAS form rather dramatically. Not one teacher asked me what I planned to do instead. Two super bright girls expressed interest in Oxbridge, they were left to find out for themselves about entrance requirements- they both got good places btw! My friend was told she couldn't take OL Maths, her parents protested but she wasn't allowed to. Then the maths teacher agreed to tutor her privately, and she passed with flying colours.

It really was a place where they took bright girls but failed to help them to shine. Thank heavens it no longer exists and is now part of a thriving comprehensive.

[Moussemoose]

M4Dad

[Moussemoose]

Miss post sorry -normal service will resume shortly.

[Moussemoose]

DunkMeInTomatoSoup

So the students I know with level 3 Business Btecs studying law at Uni - waste of time Broadly yes. They won't be getting silks will they? They might get a bit of paraleagal work or conveyancing

No the ex students of mine are not silks they are fully qualified solicitors though.
And that 1950s attitude is why we are we rid of a 1950s style education.

[QueenofLouisiana]

Ok OP, I’ll bite. A 1950s style education requires the rote learning of facts, in some cases this is easy for the child but in many cases it is not. Rote learning is not the same as learning how to apply that knowledge to solve problems of to adapt the previous knowledge to a new situation.
The world around us is changing so rapidly that we are doing our children no favours by teaching them facts for today; we need to give them the skills to solve the problems that tomorrow will bring. By the time ‘new’ ideas arrive in schools, they are out of date and have been superseded by new systems and ideas.
Whilst there are certain things that must be learned, thoroughly where possible (basic number facts, punctuation), these are only tools for the rest of education. For most people, what earthly use is the ability to recite the dates of Tudor monarchs from memory? For most people, the ability to identify a problem, devise a solution and work out how to implement that would be far more use.
My DS has a specific learning difficulty and I am very grateful that he has never been told that he is thick or lazy because his spelling isn’t great and his handwriting shocking. I am delighted that his school recognise his ability to code, write original and insightful documents using a word processing program and word bank, and compete at regional level in his chosen sport are valued.
Perhaps look at the progress 8 scores for your local grammar schools- they are often not nearly as good as the comprehensives. This is certainly the case in our neighbouring county. The scheme of creaming off the very brightest at 11 does not necessarily result in the best education- despite what the 1950s thought.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

in no small way to what today be labelled her 'belittling' attitude to my work. The result was i worked twice as hard for her and gained a 'then' respectable C grade at A level


I had a 60s/70s education. Spent 11 years at school where they dismissed my dyslexia. I apparently just wasn't trying so I decided not to bother

[OldWitch00]

The 1950’s ship has sailed.
There is no massive post war rebuild efforts here maybe Syria soon.
In the 1960’s children that were not easily teachable were simply permanently excluded asap, first the hallway later shown the door.
The teachers and principle decided if a child would go an academic route or trades route no parental involvement.
Personally I think Canada’s physical space helps decrease social issues.
Education here is way more relaxed, honestly no one here would care one bit if a child repeated an entire grade, travelled the country for 6 months or walked out of school mid day.

[mygorgeousmilo]

If my son was educated in the 1950s.... well, quite simply, he wouldn’t have been. Children with autism in the 1950s were classified as either psychotic or feeble minded. Under the law they were deemed uneducable, and defected. My mum didn’t pass the 11+ and was thrown on the scrap heap. At eleven years old, you’re told to just not bother because you’re going nowhere. The 1950s can go fuck itself IMO. I don’t understand why you think it was so great OP, especially as you’ve mentioned that you didn’t ACTUALLY study in the 1950s, but just that it was kind of, you know, a bit like it and you’re alright. What about everyone else? By everyone else I mean everyone else in the actual 1950s, not in the 80s!

[mountford100]

If my son was educated in the 1950s.... well, quite simply, he wouldn’t have been. Children with autism in the 1950s were classified as either psychotic or feeble minded. Under the law they were deemed uneducable, and defected. My mum didn’t pass the 11+ and was thrown on the scrap heap. At eleven years old, you’re told to just not bother because you’re going nowhere. The 1950s can go fuck itself IMO. I don’t understand why you think it was so great OP, especially as you’ve mentioned that you didn’t ACTUALLY study in the 1950s, but just that it was kind of, you know, a bit like it and you’re alright. What about everyone else? By everyone else I mean everyone else in the actual 1950s, not in the 80s!

I was diagnosed three years ago with Autistic Spectrum Disorder this in-conjunction with Dyslexia Dyspraxia and Irlens syndrome

I guess the thing that was and is vital for me is structure a sense of doing the same thing over and over again is vital.
The rote learning type lessons and the strict attention to never taking a tie off or undoing a button in a way made me secure.

I accept i must be a statistical oddity having passed A levels in the 1980 s with a combination of what today would be classed as requiring additional need.

However, if i had attended a 1980 s Comprehensive i think i would have left without even having one GCSE pass to my name !

I would have been more concerned about not being beaten up or bullied for being different.

[Mishappening]

The ruler across the knuckles is my main memory of education in the 50s.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

However, if i had attended a 1980 s Comprehensive i think i would have left without even having one GCSE pass to my name!

And had I been forced to attend my strict, rule bound, uniform obsessed school into sixth form, I would have left with no A levels. As it was I have lots of them!

There were violent bullies in the 1950s.

[Gilead]

However, if i had attended a 1980 s Comprehensive i think i would have left without even having one GCSE pass to my name !
And yet my 1980s comprehensive attending son managed to become a bank manager, and his brother has a Phd in Literature. Both diagnosed with an ASC. Dd, also Autistic, currently doing her first degree in Lit.
Oh, then there's me: A 1970s comprehensive attending pupil, also with an ASC. My title is Doctor.

[Nonibaloni]

My dad was an excellent English teacher who aided many a dyslexic student through Highers. And kids came into his class unable to read and left with some kind of education. And there was no shit taken in his class. He was educated in the 40's and spoke about it like it was yesterday. 50 in the class, the ones without shoes were called thick. He was ink monitor (cause he was bright) and felt so much shame. He achieved because he was expected to, others failed because they were expected too.
Also my acedemically brilliant but blind son would have been put in a residential school and maybe taught a trade, maybe.

[BishopBrennansArse]

Difference is OP I’m also autistic and dyspraxic. My 3 children are autistic too.

Rote learning wouldn’t work for any of us. Contemporary methods of identifying their learning style and adapting the curriculum to teach them in the best way was the most positive move that has been made in their education.

[zen1]

Well, DH is severely dyslexic (diagnosed as a primary aged child in the early 80s). He attended a very average 80s comp and was put in the special needs unit for some lessons. He still left school with several GCSEs, A levels (they let him stay longer in the 6th form)) and went to uni where he got a good degree with no mitigation for his disability. All of my DC have disabilities (ASD/ spd/ dyspraxia) and would do terribly in grammar schools, where allowances for their disabilities would not be as forthcoming as in a comprehensive. In fact they wouldn’t have passed the 11 plus anyway, due to processing difficulties. Despite this, they are doing well in comp where they are expected to achieve well. They would definitely be bullied for being different in an elitist grammar.

[RavingRoo]

50s style education is the reason why we have a lot of older managers who can’t string a sentence together. In the 50s they only taught the naturally academically gifted by rote (so they forgot as soon as they left school), and didn’t teach normal kids much of anything often allowing them to slip off the radar.

[AlexanderHamilton]

Dunk - we have had to request copies of lost C & G certificates from the exam boards at work or the employees will not be able to obtain their CICS cards (renewed annually) & therefore would not be allowed to step foot on site.