To think this is an elite school system via the back door.

[1DAD2KIDS]

There is a very good state school in my city. It has great facilities, staff and excellent (plus ever improving) results. It is a school that would give any private sector school a run for its money.

As a result a strange thing has happened over the last 10 years. It was once in a pretty average area with house prices reflecting the rest of the city. But now it is within in a bubble of masivly inflated house prices and rents within its catchment area. The difference in prices between a house that is in the catchment area and one just outside it is staggering. When a house in the catchment area is on the market it's always advertised in BOLD print in the catchment area of said school. These houses fly off the market.

It's clear what is going on here. As the middle classes have been priced out of the private sector they have found a new more affordable way to set up an elite school system. Afterall when you think about it in the long run its a far more ecconomical way to get your kids in a great school without paying private sector prices and once the kids have grown up you could sell the house on again and get the money back (or more). The demographic in the school has masivly changed over the last 10 years. Now the kids are pretty much all from well off, well educated backgrounds. It is no secret that part of the schools improving high achievement is due to change in student demographic. Also the school is not short of generous parents who donate or raise extra funds for the school. The only way to get into the school as it's soon popular is to live in the catchment area. The only way you can afford to live in that area and thus attend the school is by being well off. Even pretty much all the council housing in the area has gone through right to buy and now sells/rents at ridiculous prices.

What has happened in this case is clear. It is an elite school were you can only go to if you can afford the very expensive catchment area. A school for the well off funded by the state. There is nothing technically wrong but is there something morally wrong? Is it in the spirit of the state school system to have an excellent state school were only those wealthy enough can attend due to catchment area? Or is it just another obstical to social mobility?

[20nil]

The only way around this is a lottery system in some areas, including mine.

[Looneytune253]

Our school is an outstanding school within a deprived area. Results aren’t great (but probably more to do with the average deprived child not having as good results). The school has been so good it is a teaching school and the headteacher and her staff get pulled all over the place to train other schools etc. This obv also generates revenue for the school. The funny thing is people are so so snobby about it and all the new estates that are popping up all over the town will scramble to get their children into the school in the next village. School is also outstanding but not on the same level as this one. So doesn’t always follow that schools change the area. The nice houses have been built here but they won’t dare send their kids to the fantastic school. Even some people within the area will travel out to go to a different school. It’s laughable really.

[corlan]

It's selection by house price but it's still selection.

[RidingWindhorses]

I agree, people are paying for their children's education, just not upfront in school fees.

That's why I support grammars, because although in wealthier areas you would get higher numbers of middle class children, in poorer/more disadvantaged areas there would equitable provision of good, academic schools, and people wouldn't need to afford property in the area to get access to one.

A good friend of my father went to a grammar school in a deprived area in the north - where he says there were few if any middle class children at his school, everyone was a similar background to him.

[RedAndGreenPlaid]

Brummie- you may not like the way 5rivers says it, but it's absolutely the truth. We chose to pay for schooling, as we couldn't afford to pay for housing, but were vilified and ostracised by our Post-natal group. We couldn't have possibly afforded the houses in catchment, but no-one we were the snobbish ones, apparently!

[GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER]

Same around here, some very good primaries, and we still have two outstanding grammar schools.
People move into the area because of the schools, prices are correspondingly high. There is fierce competition for the grammars, and a lot of tutoring for the 11 plus.

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

Location, Location, Location

Actually in SW London some of the most expensive locations (think Wimbledon/Highgate Villages) don't have great secondadiez because the locals all go private.

[PoppyPopcorn]

Exactly the same here. We're in Scotland so catchment areas are set and never-changing and on local house ads it's usually the first thing mentioned - in catchment for XYZ school. Prices here are considerably more than across the councl border into Glasgow city or Stirling.

The difference between paying private is that as long as the school continues to perform, house prices will hold their value.

[unlimiteddilutingjuice]

YANBU OP. It is not in the spirit of universal state education at all.
Middle class people being what they are-you'll probably always see this type of behaviour.
I'll never forgive the Blair government for putting a rocket under it (to the detriment of everyone) by introducing league tables.

[NewDaddie]

This is why I actually support the idea of grammar schools. I'd prefer a fair meritocratic system than the current unfair 'inclusive' system.

I've spent almost all my life in London and nobody I know would bat an eyelid at OP's story, it's the norm here.

[Teddygirlonce]

But Wimbledon has got three of the 8 local Merton secondary schools: Ursuline, Wimbledon College and Ricards Lodge (and arguably Rutlish in nearby Merton Park).

I don't think that RL, for one, could be conceived to be anything but Wimbledon Village given that it's 'up the hill' from Wimbledon town centre?

[Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar]

That’s not a new phenomenon. It’s the way it’s always been. Literally always.

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

You have to be Catholic for ursuline and Wimbledon college and children travel way beyond Wimbledon village to them.

Ricards I agree has improved but I don't know many middle class families who consider it a viable option. In 2009 when dd transferred it didn't have a 6th form and it's results were very poor. Having said that the Ricards girls on the Broadway when I was there last week looked absolutely delightful and a far cry from my recollection ten years ago.

[Olympiathequeen]

The same would happen if more grammar schools were created. Absolutely would not favour kids from deprived areas and would only widen the elitist schools gap.

[BeyondThePage]

People supporting grammars for "social inclusion" - you have not seen how it works in Cheltenham.. Pates - one of the best grammars in the UK - is situated in the most economically deprived area of town - and surrounded by a HUGE fence. Kids are bused in from at least 5 counties, it is a farce. Much lower than average free-school-meal entitlement, much lower than average number of children with a disability, much lower than average with SEN.

"Socially inclusive - my arse" as Jim Royle would say...

[corlan]

Grammar schools do not make the situation more equitable. Where I live in London, children are being tutored from Year 2 and the fees and waiting lists for the 'best' tutors put their services out of the reach of ordinary families.

[Looneytune253]

@BeyondThePage is that not the idea of a grammar though? That the children who may be ‘cleverer’ get to attend even though they may be poorer? There’s bound to be a lower percentage of fsm than average as statistically children brought up in poorer homes wouldn’t have the same kind of upbringing. Not as much emphasis on education? Not judging there as I am from a poorer home and I’m not educated. We are still poor but trying to get better for our children. There are no grammar schools anywhere near here but it would be a good option for us if we could.

[RidingWindhorses]

That's because there are so few grammars left that the ones that exist have huge pressure for places, with parents paying premiums to be in the catchment area. If grammars were everywhere, it would relieve the pressure and create better provision for all.

[RidingWindhorses]

That was to BeyondThePage

[OrlandaFuriosa]

You have

Selection by academic - grammars
Selection by mortgage/wealth - as here
Selection by wealth -private sector, with some academic via bursaries
Selection by religion - religious schools, with broader entrance for CoE schools

To say otherwise is dishonest. We live in a street where until recently the local secondary comprehensive schools were very poor, special measures, but the primary excellent. ( nothing to do with league tables, inspection proven, and council apathy or worse behind it.) So houses changed hands when the first child got to year 5. Now the secondaries have improved hugely, it has to be said thanks to a particular academy chain, and the families stay on.

John Prescott made this point, admittedly in a confused way, but he was right.

[gillybeanz]

OP this is the same for many school in many areas.
We don't have this where I live because there aren't any excellent schools.
Don't forget though, if they are deemed excellent there's only one way they can go. All it takes is for a bit of complacency to set in and down it goes.
Then you can take solace that the house prices will drop and those lovely expensive houses will lose many thousands.
I've seen it happen and a few years/ new head could make the world of difference.

[Dahlietta]

Personally, I have never understood the attraction as compared to NI state grammars, Cranbrook is very average
How on earth does the grammars being good in NI help people who need to live in / near cranbrook , that's one hell of a commute.

Haha, yes, that's what I thought. I also got the impression that the OP was talking about a comprehensive (in which case a better example near Cranbrook would probably be Claverham!). Grammars raise a host of different questions.

[2014newme]

We did this. Invested the £250k we would have spent on school fees in property by an outstanding secondary. The school is excellent but it does serve the whole town and therefore a mix of people. We're very happy with that. It's rare for anyone from our town to go to a private school in the nearby it, they don't need to.

[magpiemischeif]

I can see the problem with house prices and social selection but this can be a problem with larger catchment areas too. They can have rather engineered selection policies too. Ones that take specific percentages based on attainment bands, for example and ones that select upon church attendance.

Also, if you don't have a local catchment this involves children not being able to go to their most local school and unnecessary travelling distances. Remaining local has benefits. Schools can easily serve local communities and being involved in local comity events. Children can more easily and independently see friends and engage in extra curricular activities. Really I think being able to be educated locally adds to social cohesion and reduces road pollution.