To think that "well she's only 13" is not an excuse for child to not understanding basic legal issues?

[MrsExpo]

Prepared to be flamed for this, but as a none parent I'm struggling to understand why an intelligent, well educated 13 year old would not be able to understand a couple of basics about what is, and is not, legal. To give some background ...

Issue 1 ... this girl owns a horse and has recently discovered a broken fence off a nearby bridle path, which allows access to a private farm area with nice grass tracks, perfect for riding on. This is private property, not public right of way, and the owners do not take kindly to people trespassing on it. They own their own horses and keep the area for their own use. Fair enough. But she can't understand the basic premise of trespassing, and private property being private, and thus that her going there is not great and could get her into some significant bother.......

Issue 2 ... (perhaps a bit more complex) ... she regularly copies and shares copyright images from different web sites on her FB and Twitter feeds, even if they have the photographer's copyright plastered all over them. She cannot understand that pictures actually belong to someone in the same way as other property, and she should therefore not steal them for her own use, even if they are on a web site somewhere, and are thus accessible.

I think she's old enough and bright enough to understand right from wrong in these situations. As I said, not a mother of teenage girls myself, so I might be way off beam here. AIBU?

[forlornalien]

No I didn't compare them, they aren't even close but changing the language slightly does show how it's un reasonable to put the onus on the owner to keep intruders out.

[CheesyCrust]

Ah, I was confused when you said

I'd expect the woman not to walk down the street at night dressed in revealing clothes.

My mistake

[Ceto]

I suspect that the issue has been resolved by the repair of the fence by now, but still, her attitude was of "well I can do it, so why shouldn't I?"

I think it would be relatively easy to get the answer to that one into her head. Say to her that, in that case, you are going to feel free to go into her room and ferret amongst her belongings, read her diary, try on her clothes etc. After all, you can do it, why shouldn't you?

[FemelleReynard]

I can guarantee she understands the law but chooses to ignore it. She says she doesn't understand as an excuse when she gets caught! I used to do similar on my horse as a child - riding around private land and playing dumb when/if caught.

[HelenaDove]

When i was 11 me and a friend were walking across this golf course and she took a golf ball that had just been hit across towards us. We hid in the bushes and watched this golfer getting really airiated banging his club on the ground because he couldnt find his ball.

Id forgotten all about it since reading this thread.


OP shes 13 Shes just finding her way!

[JustSpeakSense]

If my 13YO DD was asked not to enter someone's land she would be mortified, apologise and never do it again (she is, by nature, not a rule breaker at all)

[TheLuminaries]

A bit of non compliance is healthy and normal at that age - why not have a lovely off road ride for as long as you can get away with it? It is totally normal, especially for teens, to push against boundaries. I live in a country with open access legislation so really can't get uptight about straying from bridleways for as long as you can get away with it - and if caught, I guess it make sense to act dumb

[TheLuminaries]

Right to roam is a right to walk

It isn't actually, it covers all forms of non motorised transport on land and waterways. 'Tis cool

[user1493022461]

Maybe she is a nascent communist and doesn't agree with your bourgoise concepts of ownership.

[TheLuminaries]

I'm talking about Scotland of course, I know England and Wales don't enjoy the same access legislation, so the girl is being naughty (but not really 'bad' )

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Creative commons licenses aren't at all complicated for anyone with half a brain.

If you need an image, search from one that is free to use rather than stealing someone elses work.

[charliethebear]

I think at 13 I wouldn't expect her to understand copyright law. Or rather I would expect her to not care as really it isn't hurting anyone to put someone else's photo on her facebook page. In all honesty id have been more concerned about a child who was worried about that.
The trespassing thing, I think most teens trespass but would be worried about getting caught. I would expect her to stop once asked but at the end of the day, she is only 13 and her actions dont cause much harm.

[SugarNyx]

Don't get what the big deal is - how does it effect you?

[CrazedZombie]

The first one is easy to understand. If I thought her bed looked comfy I couldn't go and have a nap there because she's at school and not using her bed.

The pic thing - is she making money from these images or pretending that they are her images? I love spreading memes and don't credit the creator or anything.

[Trifleorbust]

It depends on the child. You sound a bit odd, focusing too much energy on what a 13 year old might be expected to understand, rather than just telling her once or twice then going to her parents.

And copyright issues? Really?

[Trifleorbust]

A bit of non compliance is healthy and normal at that age - why not have a lovely off road ride for as long as you can get away with it?

Because it isn't your land and it is rude as well as being illegal.

[CrazedZombie]

If I was the land owner, I'd be asking the police to have a word. If she hurt herself on the land, the owner could be liable. I think that 13 is when ASBOs start. (Don't they include clauses like not going to specific places) ?

[MapMyMum]

I assumed that if a photo has the watermark on it then you dont need to worry about copyright as the mark itself acknowledges the photographer? So long as you dont make out its your own

[forlornalien]

A bit of non compliance is healthy and normal at that age - why not have a lovely off road ride for as long as you can get away with it?

Would you object if the children without gardens came uninvited and played in your garden if they could get away with it? Or came in your house to watch your TV because they didn't have one?

No, thought not.

[TheLuminaries]

Would you object if the children without gardens came uninvited and played in your garden if they could get away with it? Or came in your house to watch your TV because they didn't have one?

But she isn't doing that, is she? She is having a ride round some farm land. Open access legislation recognises curtilage, so you can't ride through someones garden but you can ride round a field margin. I think anyone over the age of 13 could grasp the distinction

[Ihaveabloodyheadache]

I don't understand copyright law to any great degree, however if my 13yo was pulled up by someone unhappy about having their work shared without permission, as common curteousy, they'd be coming down and if she refused well, I hold the WiFi code! And I'd keep going until she got the message.
Same with the horse, you say she's been spoken to by the landowner, so they're aware she's done it, if it were my daughter, the horses tack would be removed, and she'd only be allowed to ride under my supervision until she could be trusted to be more responsible.
From your updates it seems she knows the score. But so far there have been no consequences to her breaking the rules, and as a teen, she will undoubtedly push boundaries until a consequence stops her.
YANBU to think she should understand, but IMO I think the onus is now on the parents to show a 13yo there are consequences to breaking rules.

[forlornalien]

But she isn't doing that, is she? She is having a ride round some farm land.

Farm land is still privately owned land. She should only ride it with the permission of the owner or where there is a right of way which is allowed to be used by horses.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I assumed that if a photo has the watermark on it then you dont need to worry about copyright as the mark itself acknowledges the photographer

Just because you acknowledge the creator does not mean you can use (in this case) an image. Copyright is about permission to use, without permission you should not use an image, watermarked or not.

[faithinthesound]

I think the "able to understand the law" thing is a red herring. This isn't a legal issue, this is a defiance issue. She has been told multiple times not to [ride on private land] and [share copyright work]. Her attitude was "I can, why shouldn't I?"

Because you have been specifically told not to, that's why, you little madam.

If t'were my child, I wouldn't be focusing on whether or not she understood the complicated legalities of trespass and intellectual property. I would be imposing consequences for the repeated, willful and deliberate defiance.