To think that "well she's only 13" is not an excuse for child to not understanding basic legal issues?

[MrsExpo]

Prepared to be flamed for this, but as a none parent I'm struggling to understand why an intelligent, well educated 13 year old would not be able to understand a couple of basics about what is, and is not, legal. To give some background ...

Issue 1 ... this girl owns a horse and has recently discovered a broken fence off a nearby bridle path, which allows access to a private farm area with nice grass tracks, perfect for riding on. This is private property, not public right of way, and the owners do not take kindly to people trespassing on it. They own their own horses and keep the area for their own use. Fair enough. But she can't understand the basic premise of trespassing, and private property being private, and thus that her going there is not great and could get her into some significant bother.......

Issue 2 ... (perhaps a bit more complex) ... she regularly copies and shares copyright images from different web sites on her FB and Twitter feeds, even if they have the photographer's copyright plastered all over them. She cannot understand that pictures actually belong to someone in the same way as other property, and she should therefore not steal them for her own use, even if they are on a web site somewhere, and are thus accessible.

I think she's old enough and bright enough to understand right from wrong in these situations. As I said, not a mother of teenage girls myself, so I might be way off beam here. AIBU?

[gettinfedduppathis]

Yes, a typical 13 year-old is able to understand right from wrong. When told that they aren't allowed to do something then they shouldn't do it.

The land doesn't belong to her so she shouldn't go onto it, and the photos don't belong to her so she cannot use them. That's it really. She doesn't need to be able to understand the legalities.

[user1491572121]

Of course she understands. She doesn't care.

[viques]

Her school should be explaining that using other people's work is plagiarism . It should be a basic concept drummed into students when they are doing projects . maybe the school has but she doesn't realise that downloading photographs for personal use is the same issue.

Re the trespassing if she is old enough to ride out unaccompanied then her parents should be reinforcing safety, which includes not going onto other people's land.

But she is thirteen, she has a thirteen year olds brain which means she knows EVERYTHING, (rolls eyes, tosses hair, whatever!)

[Ollivander84]

Most of the photos (not sure if other people on the thread will realise) will have a massive watermark saying copyright do not use or unedited do not use
This is a google example

[Stormtreader]

I'd expect a 13 yr old to be bang in the middle of the phase "well its not hurting anyone, I dont see why I should/nt, everyone does it, no-one stopped me".
Too old to follow the rules just because thats what the rules are, too young to understand the potential consequences enough to be worried about them.

[KingofnightvisionKingofinsight]

Teenagers can understand the law, but they also see that adults don't always follow all of the laws/rules, so they make their own judgments, just like we all do. I am old enough and bright enough to understand that it is illegal to drive above the speed limit. But there are times when I disregard that law and drive above the limit, because in my judgment at that time it does not add significant risk of injury or punishment, and it will benefit me to get where I'm going sooner. Likewise, a 13-year-old can certainly understand what's legal and what's not (although the photo thing might need some explanation because it is so commonly done and the rules aren't widely known), but in her estimation the benefits of using the pictures or riding on the land outweigh any possible risk. If she were caught and told off by the owner of the land, it would probably scare her enough to stop doing it. But at the moment it feels to her like a victimless crime, and she enjoys riding there. She also probably doesn't think she's hurting anyone by reposting pictures and she doesn't think she's likely to get in trouble, so she does it because she enjoys it. She can understand what's legal but she may be less able to assess risk and understand the potential ramifications of her actions.

Or maybe she understands perfectly well... it doesn't seem like she's likely to get punished for either of these things, at least not in a serious way. So her assessment may be perfectly reasonable, whether or not you like it.

[Hissy]

If the landowners were that concerned they would fix the fence, no?

otherwise, yes, she absolutely should stay off private land if she has been told to.

[MelinaMercury]

Am i the only one that used to venture off the beaten track to explore private fields, forests, building sites, the school roof then?

That's just what we did, never any malice intended and if we were asked to leave we didn't return.

[FeedTheSharkAndItWIllBite]

I think the photo thing is quite awful. But I do think that this may be a case of "everybody is doing it, so what's wrong with it?". Which is why I kind of understand that she maybe really doesn't know anything about this basic legal issue?

As for the right of way... Well, when I was little I would have been afraid a farmer would shoot me or use his dogs... But that's the UK, so no fire arms.

Yes, I think she should definitely know that she can''t just ride on somebody else's land. If she were to accidentally leave the front door open... Would that mean somebody else could just go inside and use her bed for a nap?
And especially if they have already spoken to her.

[SandyDenny]

It's not clear to me if anyone has explained the issues to her or whether you think she should just know.

Either way I'm not surprised that she carries on with what she's doing, she's 13 not 30. Teens don't always do what you want them to, even the nicest most well educated ones.

I need more information to decide if anyone IBU

[CheesyCrust]

The general public don't understand copyright infringement. Not theft. I suggest you get better acquainted with the law. Those in glass houses and all that.

[Yukbuck]

Maybe she doesn't know she's on private land? When I was a teenager I used to go walking through lots of public footpaths, off of these there were both public fields and private fields. I got told off once for being oh someone's land but my friends and I didn't know. We obviously apologised and never went on his land again.
Has she been told?
With the photos, no I wouldn't expect her to know. Even I'm not sure of the legalities. My cousin had a baby 2 weeks ago. I took the photos from her fb to send to my mum. Would she mind? No. Did I ask her? No.

[VestalVirgin]

There are whole cultures that have no concept of land ownership, so I don't think you can expect a 13 year old to understand how it is wrong. Only that it is illegal - and as long as she thinks she won't be caught, it being illegal isn't really a deterrent.

With the images, well, it is true everyone does it, but she should understand, if explained, that this potentially makes artists unable to make a living.

I wouldn't expect a 13 year old to understand why things that do not obviously hurt someone can be ethically wrong. Many adults don't grasp the concept, and a 13 year old brain is still very immature.

I'd say: Complain to her parents. The parents absolutely should be able to understand the illegality of her actions, and be able to prevent her from doing this.

[witsender]

Teenagers have a whole lot less impulse control than adults, as such she may understand the basics of legality but just go for it anyway.

[AwaywiththePixies27]

But the photo thing isn't theft is it? Its copyright infringement right?

[PyongyangKipperbang]

I would find it hard to get my knickers in a knot about a 13 year old making no money or commercial gain from simply sharing a photo. Presumably she is sharing the watermarked version so anyone else doing to same wont be able to use image.

If she was selling it as her own work then ok, but c&ping it to her personal facebook or instagram page is hardly a major crime.

Her parents do need to have a strong word about the trespassing though. In her head she is doing no harm, she is simply doing in that field what the owners do in that field and isnt costing anyone anything. I can see her logic, but the fact is that it isnt her field to use so someone needs to impress that upon her.

[claraschu]

One of the many things I love about the UK is that you have a more nuanced view of land ownership than I was used to before I lived here. I love footpaths, and I love the Scottish right to roam.

Maybe this 13-year-old takes it one step farther and has something closer to a Native American concept of land as something which can't be owned.

[frostyfingers]

Slight derail of your thread but using copyrighted photographs does amount to theft - no different from nicking something from a shop. "When the shutter button is released the photographer who pressed the buttons owns the copyright" "copyright means owning property". My DH is a photographer and has a massive watermark on his images, which says "do not use without permission, not even on social media" and loads of people either screenshot them or use them anyway and metaphorically shrug their shoulders when challenged. It drives me nuts. It's his living, the website is his shop window and it's no different from helping yourself to something in a shop.

Just because loads of people do something that does not make it right.

Back to the OP - trespassing is something I would have thought someone of that age should be aware of and know is wrong. Using copyrighted images is not so obvious (unfortunately) but if she continues to do it after having been made aware then she is taking the mickey.

[unicornsIlovethem]

Unless she's selling the photos, it is copyright infringement but it is unlikely to be a criminal offence; same with trespass which is generally a civil claim rather than a criminal one.

[MrsExpo]

The rights and wrongs of the horse riding thing have been explained by both mother and the land owner. I suspect that the issue has been resolved by the repair of the fence by now, but still, her attitude was of "well I can do it, so why shouldn't I" ...

As for the picture thing ..... she's not passing the work off as her own, but still can't see why it's not right. I've discussed it with her calmly and politely- not in a "telling off" sort of way - and the same applies .... "I can do it, so why shouldn't I?"

I should add that I'm not getting upset over this.

[BaronessEllaSaturday]

"I can do it, so why shouldn't I?"

She does understand, she just doesn't care.

[MelinaMercury]

Sounds like a normal 13yo attitude to me but then i was a shit and dreading the day karma bites me on the arse with my kids!

[OneInEight]

To be fair most of my open university adult students did not understand the second issue given the times they sent me assignments with over people's photo's pasted in.

[Ecureuil]

So she does understand then? She just doesn't care?

[bananacake1]

The why shouldn't I question, might be better answered on the grounds of it being against the law (i.e. the consequences for the girl), rather than getting her head around the concept of other people's property. Selfish, but that's how a lot of people operate even in adulthood i.e. they only see a problem when it has consequences for them personally.

Alternatively, you could just ask her how she'd feel if someone came into her house off the street, went up to her room and tried on her clothes because the front door was open and no one was standing guard to stop it?