Not pulling her weight

[AnUnhappyStudent]

I am a mature student at uni. We have to do a group presentation tomorrow and have been meeting as a group for the last couple of months to work on it. One of the group has really taken the piss.
Turned up to about a third of the meetings, not delivered on her stuff, not letting us know when she is not attending meetings but then turning up to the one session we had with tutor
I raised it with the group and it was agreed that we would mail her and say if she didn't get her finger out we were going to ask for her to be removed as she will be graded on something she hasn't contribute to.

Today we are meeting up for a run through and its been arranged weeks. Just had an email from her to say that her uncle is seriously ill and she will need to leave early! I don't believe it for a minute. We have had various stories of ill relatives and just serms like its another excuse. But I could be wrong.
Anyway we have to submit a record of how we worked as a group this can involve meeting notes, action logs and emails. If I include the email we sent her then it will be really obvious that she was not a team player but would it reflect badly on me for dobbing her in as it were?? And what if uncle is really ill? I would feel awful

[roundaboutthetown]

They have been asked to hand in a log, Trifleorburst, not a list of who did what...

[Trifleorbust]

FrancisCrawford:

'Falsify information'?

That isn't what I call choosing not to hand in an email. It isn't lying.

God, some people really believe it's their job to right all the minor wrongs of the world, don't they? I would hate to be on a uni course with people as insufferably self-righteous as this lot.

[Neolara]

I intrigued by the idea that the non-performance of the uninvolved individual doesn't affect the others and therefore shouldn't be reported. Surely it has done. The others have had to work extra hard to pick up the slack and they have spent time, effort and emotion dealing with the others non-cooperation. People in this group have presumably had to do considerable more than those in a group where everyone has pulled their weight equally.

It would be interesting to know what the marking criteria is. What is the group actually being judged on. If effective group working is one of the criteria, then I would imagine being honest about group dynamics and steps taken to resolve the issue would be the way to go. Sounds like a brilliant (if annoying!) opportunity to learn about difficulties with working cooperatively.

[LittleCandle]

I didn't suggest that you had left your work to others Trifle. I was suggesting that you had been lumbered with the work that someone else had not done and that smarts. I understand that. However, you appear to be very involved in this thread. Goodness - is this person your child?! Of course not, but I don't really understand why you, and others on this thread, think it is all right to let this person get away with doing sod all and getting credit for others' work. How is that right, in any way, shape or form?

Where I work, we have someone who has had numerous relatives die. They are getting away with it, despite the fact that the said dead relatives have actually appeared at our work a short time after their supposed deaths. Perhaps this makes me a good deal less sympathetic than I might otherwise have been. But let me be clear, I have no time for cheats, whatever form that cheating may take.

[Trifleorbust]

Neolara:

I'm not saying they haven't been affected. But it's hardly a catastrophe. The work is done now. There is no benefit to handing in every email, text message and conversation transcript to the tutor

If I was the tutor I would look askance at people who were so keen to land a peer in it. Sorry but I would. I hate people like that.

[roundaboutthetown]

I would hate to be on a uni course where cheating in assignments is OK. Credit where credit is due. You don't plagiarise, you don't take credit for other people's work. If you agreed to do x, but only bothered to do y and everyone else had to cover for you, then that is recorded properly. If you had reasons for your inability to contribute what you promised, that is also fully recorded.

[TyneTeas]

Pie chart anyone?

[Trifleorbust]

LittleCandle:

I find it really difficult to engage with people on MN when they start making comments like 'over-invested' and 'very involved.' It's just so pointless. If you want my thoughts I will give them to you. If you don't stop asking me questions, eh?

[Trifleorbust]

roundaboutthetown:

Oh I'm not saying it wouldn't annoy me. But I don't report every infraction of every rule just for the sake of being correct. Life is too short.

[roundaboutthetown]

What do you report, then, Trifle?

[Trifleorbust]

FrancisCrawford:

There is a very big difference between 'falsifying records' (nice use of formal language to make this sound more serious than it is) and choosing to provide a higher level of information as opposed to a more granular picture. When my boss asks me how a project went, I say it went well or badly. I don't tell them how many biscuits A consumed or how many times B went to the toilet on company time. It's just not necessary.

[Trifleorbust]

roundaboutthetown:

Do you mean in general, or do you mean what would I put in the report in this situation?

[roundaboutthetown]

And I would say turning up to less than a third of meetings, not keeping promises on work you will do and not letting people know in advance that you will not be there is more than a minor infraction.

[roundaboutthetown]

I mean in general, Trifle, as you clearly think massive slacking is acceptable in this instance.

[emmyrose2000]

I think turning in a totally unemotional and factual report detailing who attended which meetings on which dates, and clearly attributing who researched/produced/contributed each element of the project is completely fair. The significantly lower number of mentions of her name in the report when compared to the rest of you will nicely highlight her lack of commitment and effort without any of you actually having to outright point out that she wasn't a useful team member

I agree.

There's absolutely no reason for you to cover for this slacker, OP. She hasn't done the work, ergo she doesn't deserve to receive the credit.

[Trifleorbust]

roundaboutthetown:

Perhaps. But I wouldn't go out of my way to draw attention to it unless I thought there was a really good reason. My own sense of her behaviour being wrong wouldn't be a good enough reason for me. But each to their own.

[Trifleorbust]

roundaboutthetown:

I didn't say it was acceptable.

You would have to ask me something more specific than 'what would you report'. Badly parked ice cream trucks? Pigeons shitting on the lawn? What are we talking here?

[befuddledgardener]

I think you have to believe the ill uncle excuse as it's not your place to judge.

However I would be honest, empathic and positive in the overview of how you worked together. How the group works and deals with non attenders is probably quite interesting to the tutor. Highlights internal dynamics. Also family illness is something that does impact attendance and tutors need to know.

'Tina managed to attend some of our team meeting despite serious family illness. Despite her absence, she has made a valuable contribution of x and x over the course of the session. Given more time, x and x could have been explored to a greater degree.

[helenfagain]

Yanbu, I had a similar person in a group at uni. They were an absolute bloody nightmare. In the end the rest of us went to our tutor about them after I had to do a presentation that they was supposed to do (since they had contributed nothing else!). The tutor had a soft spot for this person so sod all happened and they got given the same grade as the rest of us, I was bloody furious.

[Neolara]

Trifle - would you feel the same if the person definitely was just a lazy arse with absolutely no extenuating circumstances? I appreciate that in reality this would be difficult to establish, so it's purely hypothetical.

Again, I'm interested in the idea that "telling" is worse than any of the other consequences that others have to experience. . Could be a learning opportunity for uninvolved person. Get away with it and could set a pattern for future jobs. Experience consequences and learn something. It might be genuinely helpful to that person to learn that they need to contribute to group situations. Or that the hate the topic so much that they should be rethinking their options etc..

[LittleCandle]

As you have been giving your thoughts, I didn't feel the need to ask you questions, Trifle. But let me ask you one now. Why are we not allowed to say that you are over invested in this thread when this was an accusation that you threw at Francis after she had posted one single time?

I really don't understand why you think it is okay for someone to cheat on a group assignment like this. Why do you think so? The lack of participation could have a detrimental effect on the others and could, potentially, lead to them failing this assignment. That would not be right - would you be happy about that? If not, why wouldn't you tell the tutor the truth about how the group had worked? Why lie for this person, even if you don't say outright that they did bugger all, rather than handing in the email. Is that being fair to anyone? I would resent like hell that someone could get the credit for doing something that they didn't do and I would resent it even more if they caused me to fail.