To stop these boys coming round

[RachelRagged]

Morning

I have two DSs at home with me as the other DC are grown up and moved. One son is a school refuser which brings it own issues but when he does go to school he hangs round with a boy whose brother is in my other DSs class at a different school .

ANYWAY to get to the point of the matter . They are ALWAYS here but what I wish to talk of is Wednesday ,

They had been here a lot of the day due to holidays and around 3.00 I told them all to go to the park or library for some air , which they did. Not without asking "Can B stay tonight" . Said no not tonight and they all went out . During the rest of the afternoon/early evening they were back and forth , but without B.
Cue 8.30 Wednesday night there is a knock and its their mate B. Can he stay tonight as he don't have his zip card and don't want to walk home and nan isn't in apparently and uncle not answering phone . I let him in and said to him to ring his mother , which he did . Words were said about his uncles contacting him to collect him but nobody text or rang B . He rang her up at 10.00 again (his DM) who did not answer the phone at all .
I gave him a spare oyster and some money to top it up and sent him on his way .
Thing is I have mental health issues and anxiety is one of them . I don't want him or his brother here on sleepovers . Got it from my sons last night too "But WHY?" I don't need a why in my home .
Would you ring the mum and tell her to tell her sons (Ill deal with mine) to stop getting at mine , who then get at me for sleepovers ?!!

TIA

[RachelRagged]

Fwiw there was a boy in a block I used to live in who was constantly locked out of his house because the mother was away or at work and wouldn't give him a key. He kept coming to mine and others because he had nowhere else to go and it got very tiring especially as I felt used as an unpaid, unasked babysitter and the mother didn't speak English so I couldn't speak to her. So I do understand why you've had enough but am just saying it might become easier if you start talking

That is how I feel , like some sort of unpaid childcare or watcher .

The whole thing is odd but then again odd to me . possibly not their family. Dad lives not far from me either (he was not contactable Wednesday), Nan was not answering her door or her text messages (she lives not far from here either) . Mum I assume cannot drive and has her hands full with the other DCs, youngest is 1.
Its the not answering her phone I cannot get my head round .
Was shocked enough when she put the phone down on her son the night of the snow and no or very few buses.

[RachelRagged]

Ill see how it goes over the next week (we are away at my DPs over Easter so it won't be an issue at that time as we are London and they are down the Kent coast)and if any more incidents do occur then a word with school possibly who can then decide . I know its passing the buck but I have my own issues happening alongside the d&a

[GabsAlot]

i dont agree about explaining why-it your house u can have who u want or not there

if theres problems phone ss-hes not your reponsibility to sort out

[ThatsNotMyMummy]

I was only thinking yesterday about the boy in my class who did this, posh middle class mum who was putting cock before kids and would leave the kids on their own for days and weeks at a time.
He just used to turn up at friends houses and hang it out until told to leave. He practically moved into the social workers sons. Until he realised the advantages of being left alone.

I have anxiety and depression too so really understand where your coming from. But I don't think its a bad thing to open your door to him, but I also don't think you wanting your own time is unreasonable either. It sounds like your son may know what is going on at his home more? Brutal conversation "we can't help if you don't tell me" type. Also some ground rules I don't mind x amount of nights a week. But I really need some time for me too

[Enigmatic101]

You feel like an unpaid child care because you're being treated like one but the point I was trying to make is you need to do something to rectify this rather than just grumbling about it. If you explain to your own children that that's how it's making you feel then hopefully they'll understand and stop asking, but at the moment all you want to do is say no without saying why. In that case, the problem is probably going to continue.
Do you know any of the parents' friends or anyone else you could approach about it, do they go to a youth club or anything like that where there is another adult who knows them and might be able to help

[RachelRagged]

Yea I know GabsAlot I do .

It was the way he said "Please don't ring SS not them". . I have had Social Services in the past and, apart from some, found them all ok and it did help in several areas to be honest .. Like CAMHS appointments, respite (I'm talking a good 10 or so years ago so no idea how that works now) .
Also, during one bad breakdown I had, they done everything to keep my DCs in the family but sadly they had to go to Foster Care as I could not even look after myself , let alone the DCs. Guilt I have and always will have but that again is my issue not theirs. Also I don't know this family well at all (only know the mums name , age and amount of DCs) and what if they are violent sorts and would guess I rung SS or that ?

[Trifleorbust]

Bottom line is, OP, it sounds like these lads are being neglected. If they are begging you not to tell anyone, that means there is something to tell. They are probably trying to be out of the house whenever they can, but their younger siblings can't do that. What if they aren't being fed or there is violence? I totally understand why anyone would be reluctant to report a family - I would always do it with great reluctance - but there really is something that isn't right here.

[RachelRagged]

ThatsnotmyMummy . . That is a good idea and I will speak to B if they knock today . Alone with B. B does speak with me and is polite , Ill bring up Wednesday with him and go from there.

Enigmatic , I know no parents as they are in secondary and don't tend to go with them or know anyone whose kids go there . I moved (same area but further away) so all the people I did know were mums at the primary and lived in that area too . I am not too social either , have small friend circle close by though.
Youth Clubs , a few weeks ago now a flyer came through the door and it sounded great .. Showed all of them it , said that would be something new for you boys .... none of them ever went.

[diddl]

If something is going on the OP needs to report-not pick up the slack as that isn't sustainable.

Op, I think that you are already doing a great deal by keeping the boys out of the house for most of the day.

[RachelRagged]

Mentioning food Trifleorbust

Just before Christmas I gave my son some cash to treat him and them to some fish and chips at chip shop . (Both the brothers were here with my 2 DSs that afternoon) . I was out of sight but in earshot kind of thing and B said "Can we have a big portion of chips K?" to my youngest DS. Left it at that point but a few days later (a Saturday) I stuck some sausage rolls in the oven and asked them all if they wanted one each . B was heard saying "Oh good, we don't get treats like that">. a sausage roll ? I think I will speak to B later though , he is a wise head on young shoulders although only 14 (or might be 15 rising now, not sure).

[Trifleorbust]

What are you planning to say to him? He is an older brother to little siblings. However bad things are he will not want his family split up and his instinct will be to deny/minimise. If he tells you everything is fine, will you believe him? It's clearly not the case.

[YellowDinosaur]

It is your home and you are not being unreasonable not to want sleepovers. And you are perfectly reasonable to tell your sons this is just not happening without any further explanation.

I started reading this thread feeling uneasy though that you sent a 15 year old home alone on the bus at 10pm when his mum was not answering the phone, because you have no idea if there was even anyone at home to let him in. But thought that you really must be at the end of your tether with repeated sleepovers, or that he was really disruptive and badly behaved.

Then, it transpires that he is a good kid, and there has only been one sleepover before this.

I'm sorry but in this situation you are totally and utterly unreasonable. How on earth do you know there was even someone at home and he didn't end up sleeping rough? How would you feel if this was your son? Some of my son's friends are bloody annoying and I can relate to your need for space but I can't think of any of them I'd kick out at night in this situation.

If this happens again ffs please take him home so you see he gets in or call social services. He is not your direct responsibility, but ensuring children are safe is everyone's responsibility tbh. And yes, you need to have strong words with his mum, but also accept that in this particular situation if something had happened to him you would be partly at fault, because you let a child out at night alone without knowing he had access to a safe place to stay with a responsible adult.

[RachelRagged]

Thank You diddl .

The GOOD things about this friendship are that my DS2 (15) did spend too much time alone ,( his own choice but I think he may have PDA which is another thing altogether) in his room but he does now go out to the library and the park (there are two they go too) which is great in my view. My younger DS is now school refusing as well and the youngest DB of B is in a class my son wants to go in .. Which is another thing , ,they promised he could, and that he can have a reduced timetable etc ,, then told him the only way he will go into the other class is when F (friend) is expelled !
Do you think it is worth asking what they meant by that as a meeting is actually being planned after the Easter break. ?

[RachelRagged]

Not being funny here YellowDinosaur but as explained I have my own issues (quite a few of them) to work on and it seems to me the mother is pretty happy knowing they can be here , she don't know me from Adam however. . I could be a sociopath, psycho , she wouldn't know would she ?

Yes I should report to SS but I told you of his reaction on that one .. what if its made worse for them ??
I should not be in this position .
And yes they had one sleepover , where they were all back and forth in each others rooms till 2.00 in the morning . .. I don't deal well with that .

[RachelRagged]

Hmm didn't think of that Trifle

Yes he is the eldest brother (he has a few sisters I think but ages unknown to me) , Only ages I know are 14(15), 13, 10, then I know there is a 2 and 1 year old as well .. no idea of the age of sibling 6 but primary I imagine as never seen him or her with any of the brothers

[Trifleorbust]

The fact that he reacted so strongly is exactly why you need to report. As you said, you could be a sociopath and the parents don't know you from Adam. So when they aren't mithering you, where are they? Who are they with? They are at serious risk and so are the little ones, by what I can gather.

[YellowDinosaur]

You do have your own issues (I cross posted on a lot of them though as I type slowly) and as I said at the start you are totally reasonable not to want responsibility for these boys and not to want them sleeping over for whatever reason.

However my view that you were totally unreasonable in this isolated situation last night in kicking him or with no idea what would happen to him and I was trying to make you see why this cannot happen again.

If you don't want this to happen, and I totally don't blame you for that as it's important to prioritise your mental health and own family, then you need to have a plan as to what you are going to do if this happens again that works for you but doesn't compromise his safety.

Suggestions from other posters to talk to him and social services are I think spot on.

[YellowDinosaur]

And...

I should not be in this position

I agree. But you are. Please don't let these boys and they're siblings down. Inform social services whose job it is so they can do that. It may be that their mum needs temporary support, like you did. Or there may be a lot more to this. But they are being neglected and it could be worse for the younger ones who don't have any alternative.

[YellowDinosaur]

Their. Not they're autocorrect

[RachelRagged]

Point taken but last night was the asking by my sons (was Wednesday the night of the phone calls (or call) to his DM) and it was around 6.00.

Yes I should have taken him all the way home Wednesday but I had no money at all apart from the money on the Oyster I loaned him I done what I thought was best at that time. However if I had had money I'd have got us a cab, seen him in and got the cab straight home again (I'm talking perhaps 10 minutes or so each way via cab)

What do you think of asking school at the meeting (I would be able too ask WHY they are saying his friend could be expelled and when an attendance officer came round knocking once, I mentioned youngest DSs friend and they said don't let him in!! .. They could not tell me why.

[BigGrannyPants]

If this was my sons friend I would be inclined to help, but obviously you know your MH issues better so you're the only one who knows what you can cope with. His friend sounds at risk

[RachelRagged]

But they are being neglected and it could be worse for the younger ones who don't have any alternative.

This has sealed it for me ... You are correct and I will contact them Monday morning.

[YellowDinosaur]

I think talking to school would be a good idea. But I think talking to social services would be better

[YellowDinosaur]

Cross posted. You are doing the right thing x

[RachelRagged]

Indeed BigGrannyPants

I do want to help . I want to help their DM as well (I've been there. .think I said on another thread a brief bit of those times) . The only time I spoke to her was Monday when I let them stay . She was saying thank you and that if they are mouthy then tell them off ... and that its so hard having boys isn't it ? Now that was probably just a general conversation but now I'm wondering about her mental health .
I do know she is young , compared to me . I am 51 and she is a mere 35