Wine when pregnant

[patronsaintofglocks]

Hi everyone.
I'm nearly 15 weeks pregnant with my first. It's my 24th birthday today.

I'm going out with my DP for dinner this evening, would IBU to have a glass of wine with my meal?

Thank you.

[flamingnoravera]

If I had meant to apologise I would have made it unreserved.

[TheDowagerCuntess]

Nice non-apology there!

Tip for next time - just the first three words are necessary for it to be sincere.

[flamingnoravera]

I am sorry if you felt patronised ethel.

[ethelfleda]

flaming I don't need you to patronise me thanks. I personally enjoyed reading her posts... hence my comment.

[oblada]

Elis - the driving analogy is obviously BS, come on! If you think that justifies drinking in pregnancy fine, good on you, I expect you therefore chose to drink but not drive unless strictly necessary, to balance out the risks. I chose to not drink because it's very easy to do and it is a potentially harmful substance with no real benefit for me or baby. To me it is a no brainer. Yes there is no clear evidence that in small quantities alcohol would be a problem but why take the risk when it can be easily avoided and when we all know that the subject simply cannot be studied in sufficient depths for a clear answer, for obvious reasons?

[flamingnoravera]

No ethel, not brilliant. How can a post justifying drinking alcohol during pregnancy be declared to be "brilliant"?

Feotal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) is now thought to affect more children than autism. We do not know the exact numbers or relationships because many women who present with children with problems that could fall within the umbrella of FASD are not honest about what they drank during pregnancy and there are few studies about the effects because controlled tests are almost impossible to carry out ethically. What we do know is that alcohol can damage developing foetuses but we dont know exactly how much or at what point the damage occurs.

To use a driving analogy which so many like to use - would you get into the car with your newborn and your partner driving and said partner had had "just one drink" on the way to pick you up from the hosptial and let them drive you home? Just a small drink? Because it was the baby's birthday? Or might you say- you know what- the new baby and I will get a taxi home?

[ethelfleda]

Brilliant posts elis

[CherriesInTheSnow]

You can write a long response Elis, but it's nonsense TBH.

There is not "zero evidence" that drinking while pregnant can harm a baby developing in the womb. The very fact that FAS exists is unequivocal evidence that alcohol can harm babies. There's no point be pro or anti choice regarding the fact that it can cause harm. If you think the risk is small enough, then whatever. That's your call. But don't go around trying to tell people that there is no evidence to support not drinking in pregnancy.

And TBH I don't think anyone is just talking about one drink anymore, we are addressing the posters who say they think it's fine to drink during pregnancy, in general. And why are we "bullshitting hypocrites" exactly? Because I don't agree that consuming a known teratogen during pregnancy is the same as getting in a car? (I don't drive BTW). If you really can't see the difference, well it just fits in perfectly with a lot of other stuff you've said.

Your posts have been some of the most full of shit ones on this entire thread TBH.

[ElisavetaFartsonira]

I don't need to learn anything off someone who advocates poisening babies.

I dunno, I could teach you how to spell poisoning for a start. And then I could teach you the difference between advocating doing something, and pointing out when people who criticise that action are bullshitting hypocrites.

But if you prefer self-directed learning, by all means go and do some of your own research, and come back when you've found some evidence, any evidence, of definite harm that came to any baby through the mother having one small drink of alcohol.

I'll wait.

[ElisavetaFartsonira]

Also, I did write this in my previous post but I must accidentally have deleted it...but everyone's spidey sense should've started tingling at that Peter Hepper quote about foetuses stopping breathing for two hours. It would've been more of a surprise if they were breathing afterwards, since foetuses don't actually breathe in the first place.

And I've now looked at it a bit further. My initial assumption was that the DM were doing their usual misquoting. Hepper doesn't actually have any kind of expertise on human physiology, he's a psychologist, but the foetal breathing thing is sufficiently common knowledge that you'd expect someone who's doing research on them to be aware of it. However, I've found a number of articles that seem to prevent the stopping breathing thing as a direct quote.

I would hate to think he could be in the position he is without understanding that, but whether it's him or the newspapers, there's some very bad science here somewhere along the line.

[SpreadYourHappiness]

I don't need to learn anything off someone who advocates poisening babies.

[ElisavetaFartsonira]

Yes, it was obvious you hadn't, or you'd have learned something.

[SpreadYourHappiness]

I didn't read it. I saw the bullshit at the beginning and realised there was no point reading the rest.

[ElisavetaFartsonira]

Ah, sweet hyperbole. Alas, it looks like my final paragraph from my previous post remains correct.

[SpreadYourHappiness]

You want to justify people literally poisening their babies (because alcohol goes through the placenta and into the baby's bloodstream), you go ahead.

[ElisavetaFartsonira]

A lot has been said since I last caught up with this thread, but a few more things need pointing out:

• Not only was the difference between drinking and driving not answered, the point was hilariously missed by all those of you who even tried. The fact is that unnecessary journeys are a superb example of a known, certain risk (unlike moderate alcohol consumption) that for some reason hypocrisy people don't feel the need to police in the same way.
  

If you are stating that women shouldn't drink occasionally just in case there is a risk we've not managed to pick up, you cannot logically defend various other behaviours such as unnecessary journeys. If you are, clearly it isn't the risk you have a problem with.
None of this is a matter of opinion, incidentally. You can either understand that the car analogy is fitting or you can be wrong: those are the choices.

• Crying about how people are only trying to justify their behaviour is evidence that you've run out of arguments. People are allowed to point out when other people are wrong even if it doesn't directly pertain to something they do themselves.
  

I for one didn't drink during my pregnancies, and if I had done wine is not my tipple (check my posting history if you don't believe me). The most salient example of people trying to come up with arguments to defend their own actions is those of you who have made asinine comments about drinking alcohol being the same as giving it directly to the baby and then have continued to dig yourselves bigger holes.

• Peter Hepper is a known anti-choicer. An article from the DM about his work, not even the research itself, is not evidence.
  

• And lastly, I wouldn't say this was an unintentional set em off post from OP, but on the off chance she's still reading, I'd remind her of what I said in my first post: Anything claims anyone makes about drinking alcohol in pregnancy, ignore without proof.
  

With that in mind, consider that not one person on this thread has been able to point to a single instance where one small drink of alcohol led to harm to a baby. If you would rather err on the side of caution just in case there could be some, despite all the extensive research suggesting otherwise, that's fine and dandy. But if you feel the need to share that opinion, don't see your arse when other people point out the inherent double standard.

[squishee]

Poor OP.
An unintentional "set 'em off and watch 'em go" thread...

[Oneiroi]

A lot of the comments here reminded me of this:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=otCNhHJVJQM

[poppinz]

Frankly that's more than I drink now with a toddler to look after

What's that got to do with anything?!

[CherriesInTheSnow]

And FFS, that homeopathy argument is the biggest loaf of bullshit I've ever heard, Lweji

Your alcohol is not diluted to nothing or almost nothing in our blood. It is passed to the fetus, where it can not be removed as waste.

[SpreadYourHappiness]

Edsheeranalbumparty RTFT. The difference between driving and drinking has been answered.

[Unicorndreamer]

Hell yeh. One won't hurt xx

[CherriesInTheSnow]

I know it's DM, but that guy is not..

"Professor Peter Hepper, who carried out the study on the effects of low-level alcohol in pregnancy – the first of its kind in the UK – said: ‘If women drink just one unit of alcohol, the baby’s breathing and movement stop for up to two hours after that. That’s not normal – the baby should be continually active.’

The professor, from Queen’s University Belfast, looked at 18-week scans of pregnant women who drank on average two-and-a-half units a week – equivalent to a 200ml glass of wine.
He noticed the foetuses stopped moving and breathing, then they suddenly jumped and turned themselves over.
Speaking to ITV’s Exposure programme, which will air next week, he said the jolts suggested the babies’ brains were not developing properly. ‘The only safe [alcohol] level is zero,’ he added.

Pregnant women are being urged not to drink at all after a study found that just half a glass of wine can stop their baby breathing and moving for up to two hours.

The research, which reveals the dangers of just one unit of alcohol, flies in the face of NHS guidelines.

These imply it is safe for pregnant women to continue drinking as long as it is not more than one or two units, once or twice a week.

Experts claim British women are being given insufficient advice, and compared the toxins in alcohol to those in Thalidomide – the infamous drug for morning sickness that caused severe birth defects in the 1950s and 60s.""

[Flowersinyourhair]

Ed that's a silly argument. I daresay you've put your baby in a car since birth but I'm guessing you haven't given it a glass of wine. The two things are entirely different.

[Flowersinyourhair]

"Can i just remind those who appear to have lost the fucking plot on this thread that what we are talking about is a small handful of units over an entire pregnancy"

One pp spoke of a glass of wine per week from 12 weeks throughout the pregnancy and no-one commented negatively about that amount. Frankly that's more than I drink now with a toddler to look after.