Letters home to parents of Uni students?

[Butteredparsnip1ps]

Posting for traffic, and looking for perspective. AIBU is whether I have given DD the right advice.

DD1 is in first year of Uni and enjoying it. Likes the course, loved placement, works hard / plays hard. Today though, her group were subjected to an angry 20 minute rant about poor attendance and threatened with letters home to parents.

There are some ironies here. As DD said, what was the point of ranting at the people who had turned up, when those who were absent missed it? Also her group includes a number of mature students who have missed lectures due to childcare and family issues. Are they going to get letters sent home to their parents too?

Although DD is on top of her work, she was worried as she missed some sessions before Xmas and again at the end of January due to illness. She suspects she may have a letter sent home, and rang in a bit of a panic.

My slightly cynical opinion is that the course leaders have become aware of poor attendance overall and so the Tutors have had a verbal kicking that they have passed down to students.

FWIW DD is very driven and doesn't bunk off. If there were any issues as a result of her illness, it would be possible to ask the GP she saw to confirm it, and we would of course support her. My hunch actually is that the rant probably wasn't aimed people like her, but at habitual non-attendees.

But. She is an adult who is paying for her education, so frankly whether she turns up or not (and the consequences) are hers. Why on earth would a university send letters to parents? And what would happen to the mature students? Surely all students should be treated the same??

So AIBU, or just precious?

[frostyfingers]

Sodomeyes & Graphista - both of you make the same point regarding the uni not being able to say whether my son was attending lectures and I do see and get that now. At the time I was beside myself and didn't consider it, although if the person I'd spoken to on the phone had explained that then maybe I would have felt less frustrated. Graphista, I don't expect them to have an interest now, but at the time of his leaving when my son was notifying them of his decision and reasons there was no interest or effort to see if they could help (not help him after his leaving, but helping to see if he could/would stay). It felt like they couldn't wash their hands of him quickly enough.

[BlueChairs]

Lol my university had no way of contacting my family because I am an adult and in charge of my own education . Some students do need the fear of parents to do their work but I don't think it should be due process unless they are worried for the students safety or health.
Also most of my seminar tutors just say - if you don't turn up then it's you who is sacrificing your own education, I'm not your teacher, it's your choice.

[Sodomeyes]

frostyfingers The person definitely should have explained that they weren't allowed to tell you any details because of data protection. Sorry to see you and your family had a shit time

Blue It's not as simple as that. Of course we're not teachers and it's completely up to students if they want to waste their education. But, not turning up also has an impact on other students, classroom environment and support staff (who have to chase students and prepare emails and letters to send to chronic absentees). It all costs/wastes time and money, not just that student's.

[FlyAwayPeter]

And I've been in conversations with students who've been absent (I teach in a Humanities subject where we use a lot of group work - employability & the subject demands) and they've suddenly disclosed a set of circumstances which might give them a chance at mitigation - part of my job is to balance a) that student's welfare with b) other students' progress with c) that student's credibility.

In other words, don't come to me at the end of your Final Year wanting to appeal your degree results on the grounds that you think we've not taken into account your learning disability.

Which you've never told us about until now.

Don't cry in my office about failing when actually, you've chosen to prioritise your student extra-curricular activities because you think that "they will be more use to me than my degree" (said in only partly-veiled contempt for me, the department and the discipline you told us you were "passionate" about three years ago).

Oh I could go on. I try to remember that silly boys like the examples above, are the minority, and most of my students do understand that we are in it together, and they realise that - well, er actually, I might actually know what I'm talking about, and I might actually give good advice, and gosh - if they listen, they might actually learn something.

I think they get the joy of learning new stuff and achieving something difficult and making mistakes and realising learning is hard beaten out of them at school - not by (most) teachers, but by this godawful aspirational pushy neo-liberal travesty of an education system.

And breathe. I'm going back to the joyous chaos and tough-mindedness of the 18th Century.

[Sodomeyes]

try to remember that silly boys like the examples above, are the minority, and most of my students do understand that we are in it together, and they realise that - well, er actually, I might actually know what I'm talking about, and I might actually give good advice, and gosh - if they listen, they might actually learn something

Unfortunately, the minority of students seem to take up the majority of time though don't they? I would love to spend more time with about 80% of my students. Unfortunately, I don't get chance because I'm seeing/chasing up/bollocking the 20% who are little bastards.

[K425]

Madwomans Yes, learned helplessness. I try not to allow it, but I've had nearly 20 years' practice!

Sodomeyes K425: For early career researchers, this can be because we're unsure of what we're doing and don't want to fuck up. My University is shit hot on accountability so I'll always ask if in doubt.
Seriously, early career researchers are the ones most likely to ask sensible questions. And I am completely supportive of them.

From an admin viewpoint, it's horrendous how much the academic side has changed, and how stressful it's getting. It would be nice if (some) academics realised that the same is true for us!

[Sodomeyes]

K425 I completely agree. Some of my colleagues are awful to/about our administrative colleagues. I try not to be one of them. I'm really good friends with one of our administrators. Other colleagues are completely confused by why one of "us" is such good friends with one of "them". Horrible.

[yesnowplease]

Sodo

Bloody hell... What uni are you at? Just so I can make sure I avoid if that's how they treat colleagues. We are all the same.

[Sodomeyes]

yesnowplease I don't want to say which one. It's Russell Group, very well-respected, in a beautiful city, very historical, it has a reputation for lots of posh kids.

That's all I'll say.

I should say that colleagues haven't actually said "them" and "us" but there's certainly that culture. Administrative staff and academics have separate Christmas parties and administrative staff don't come to our regular coffee mornings etc. It's really shit. I don't care what position people are in. If you're a good laugh and good company, I'll be friends with you whether you like it or not

When we were discussing the culture of our department, one of my colleagues did once say something like "Sodom is breaking down the barrier between administrators and academics". He meant it as an insult.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Absolutely absurd, they are adults ffs! No wonder some young people lack iniative. What do they do with mature students!

[Sodomeyes]

Mature students, as a rule, turn up and engage

[MiladyThesaurus]

There's a big divide between administrators and academics where I am too but only because the university seems determined to make sure that admin staff are as inaccessible to academics as possible. So I barely have any meaningful contact with anyone in an admin role. People who've been here for eons know the few remaining longstanding administrators quite well but they have to go out of their way to see them. I've never had any real chance to get to know anyone in admin because you don't get much from very procedural and sporadic email contact and the person who contacts you changes every 5 minutes. They've just relocated all the admin people (except the PAs for the faculty executive) to a completely different part of campus so you won't even bump into anyone at lunch now.

However, I do recognise that the university have absolutely screwed the admin and support staff over, repeatedly. They have the most horrendous workloads (and little security) which I'm sure explains why they don't want any of us to know that we should be contacting them about anything.

[MiladyThesaurus]

Mature students definitely do turn up and the vast majority of them engage, IME too. I can think of one current mature student who turns up but most certainly does not engage. In fact, she seems to have made it her purpose in life to make sure everyone who sits near her is as grumpy and disaffected as she is. I can't work out why she came to university at all.

[ShowMePotatoSalad]

Absenteeism at university is dealt with by the meetings with the HoD and potential of being chucked off your course. Not notes home to moo ma and moo pa.

[ShowMePotatoSalad]

Btw don't think it's your DD's choice to be absent without any consequences. If she is regularly absent it hurts her chances of getting a good grade which in turn affects the universities grade averages. Also places are limited so some people didn't get a place on that course and I don't think it's morally right not to turn up.

[Madwomans]

Aeroflot, we've been through this a number of times. The Op's daughter must have misunderstood, because no tutor could threaten this, as it's simply not possible. Universities have no contract with parents, and no right or desire to contact them unless in certain very specific circumstances, with the student's permission.

And I must admit that two mature students in one of my modules, currently repeating first year, have both just requested to have a third go because of extenuating circumstances, as they are failing this year again -- the pattern has been the same both years. They miss a couple of weeks, citing childcare issues, miss an assignment, ask what they can do to catch up, and then vanish, ignoring emails and letters, until they reappear at Easter asking if they can have another go.

[GinAndTunic]

threatened with letters home to parents

I wonder if "letters to your home" has been somehow mistranslated to "letters home to parents".

Some universities have strict attendance monitoring policies and take a dim view of unauthorised absences, ie absences for which there is not a GP / hospital letter, etc.

Often, students are required to withdraw from a module if there is an excess number of absences, though this can be appealed.

The government claws back funding for every student who does not complete a module, causing a financial loss to the university.

And the suggestion from another poster that your daughter complain is silly and pointness: no, she may not have liked being nagged by the tutor but it is most likely that that message came from on high and the tutor was messenger and not the source of the message.

[GinAndTunic]

Adding my voice to the chorus, highinthesky, asking for a clarification of your comment about how academics lack common sense.

[Graphista]

Bugger another essay sorry. I should go bloody well back to uni

"Off the point here but I wonder if 18 is too young to go to uni?" Having been an older student twice I agree. Not just for appreciation but coping too, especially as soon all 18 year old students will be coming straight from school.

The younger ones I noticed were least able to cope (not just study, self discipline & commitment but also life basics like budgeting, laundry, housekeeping, personal admin [like knowing if their train pass/passport was due to expire], self care [hygiene yea, but also medical inc mh], knowing when, how and who to ask for help, making friends) were the boarding school kids who'd gone to schools where they were spoon fed and had parents who wouldn't ask them to do other stuff as 'it would interfere with their studies'.

Plus of course they'd start off shopping in waitrose (and buying all the brands their parents get) and learn by Easter they're better off shopping in the budget place on the industrial estate!

Those who'd had part time jobs, were expected to do their share at home, were taught life skills, coped better which meant they weren't stressed out by things outside of studies.

Even students who thought they were being clever by getting a job that filled most of their non-contact hours ('I won't be a skint student') came unstuck as they learned the hard way they had to leave time for - private study, housework, downtime inc sleep! Ditto those who thought they could focus on advancing sporting careers via uni.

And the ones who'd had a year or more of working and also had no additional commitments (like dc), coped best, they sometimes had a little money saved and/or had been kept on part time by former full time employer, were organised, committed and could balance their life well.

Also real life work experience teaches you what you really want to do work wise (says I who was career changing But applies for then/generally anyway).

It also gives you a distance from the way you learned/studied at school (many a time I heard from 17/18 year olds 'we didn't do it like that at school' )

Little things too -

the younger students initially thought it weird that I and other mature students sometimes had coffee/lunch/pint with lecturers. They thought it was just a similar age thing but I've done that since going to college at 16!

It gives you the chance to get to know them, how they think mark which writers/researchers you're quoting they actually rate and those they hate and are sick of seeing quoted! (But are required to cover) It gives the lecturers an extra way to get to know you (personally and as a cohort) and what's getting across/isn't working so well way ahead of evaluations. PLUS they are interesting funny people. (But I NEVER imposed I'd wait to be asked, or they'd see us in the coffee shop/pub and join us).

Some of us are still friends with past lecturers. Sadly one died at the end of our course, a few of us attended the funeral, having checked that was ok first. We were a bit worried they'd (the family) said yes out of politeness, instead they said they were so touched we went, that it showed the lecturer was cared about, not just respected/known.

Also the younger ones thought it was 'cheating' to proof read each others essays etc, when actually it's a really helpful thing to do.

We often miss basic SPAG mistakes/weirdly worded paragraphs typing same word 4 times oh no never did that if we try to proofread our own stuff (especially when you're knackered and have read/rewritten same paragraph 2000 times!)

Students on same course/with similar knowledge can suggest secondary reading you might find useful but were unaware of 'there's an excellent article on theory X in journal y I'll send you the link'.

Sometimes just the way another student words things can mean a fact sticks in your head come exam time. (Once a theorist stuck in my head because a fellow student really struggled to spell their name).

Have to say my 1st uni (formerly 1994 group, top ten now for that course) had similar horrible attitude to non academic colleagues - no need for it.

Whereas my 2nd uni (fairly new, now top 20) the staff all got along really well and everyone was respected, saying that reminds me of an incident during orientation where a student made a remark along lines 'what would she know she's only a library assistant' lecturer virtually spun round and said

'for starters you treat EVERYONE helping you complete your studies with respect. From the cleaners, to catering staff to Deans! For another she's probably more qualified and with a wealth of knowledge and experience that she will kindly use to HELP you than you at this point can possibly comprehend'

Student sheepishly apologised.

[sashh]

, but they had been forced to stop doing this because of the data protection issue.

That's a bit rich, it data protection can sometimes be easily got around just by asking for permission. As long as the student agrees to attendance being shared it can be done.

[TynesideBlonde]

As people have said above DPA prevents contacting parents. The class should flag the threat with the Programme Leader and ensure any satisfaction survey (module survey, NSS etc) makes mansion of it.

[flumpybear]

If universities get bad results their money from the government is reduced, plus the lecturer is probably in deep water for bad attendance
I can see why The lecturer is pissed off - sending out a message via other students - perhaps not the best approach but he or she is probably a bit stressed with numbers and pass rates

[yesnowplease]

Milady, Sodo

That's really sad - well it's certainly not like that at my uni, my department anyway - the academics and administrators are one, there's no real distinction, admin are the first port of call for any problems.

Our administrators are all pretty highly educated and/or very long standing - not that that should make a difference.

[MiladyThesaurus]

I wish that were the case here. I had been part of a small programme teach in my previous job with the most wonderful administrator who really did hold the team together and ensure everything went well. And lovely departmental administrators who we'd have been lost without. In fact, in every other department I've ever worked in, the admin staff have been both lovely and vital. Even as an undergrad the admin staff in my department were so helpful (and we all know how annoying undergrads calling at the admin office to ask the same stupid question as everyone else are).

But here we have no meaningful department and certainly no departmental admin staff, never mind programme administrators. No. We've got a central pool of overworked people whose job roles are changed and swapped around seemingly on a whim. They're nice people (which you discover when you meet them in official meetings) but the institutional structure makes everything as difficult as possible (for everyone).

[Graphista]

Milady that sounds awful.

I've also been an administrator (several times) in a large organisation. It's no bloody party for the admins when they pull that different role every day shit

Definitely as you say as difficult as possible for everyone.

Serves no purpose for anyone, administrators are not jacks of all trades as many seem to think.